Do you ever go to church?

[Arraness]

Latest post of the previous page:

I used to be what most would consider a 'Committed Christian' but over the past five years my beliefs have waned to the point that I am now pretty much an Atheist.

It was interesting how it happened. First I lost my belief in Jesus and then, after a good while, God. I somehow assumed that they would've gone together.

Sometimes I miss the comfort, however false, that having a belief in God and all He represented used to bring.

Do you think we're programmed by nature to need a belief system?

Rick.

[Alan C.]

Arraness
Do you think we're programmed by nature to need a belief system?

Programmed no, indoctrinated? most likely.

If you mean a belief in the supernatural, then no I don't think so.
If the truth be known there are probably more people in the world without such a belief than there are with one. (oh I know a lot of folk say they believe, but do they?..............Really?

[Val]

Re programming for a belief, may I recommend the book Supersense by Bruce Hood
isbn 978-1-84901-030-6 Our Highland group of the HSS discussed this at our last meeting.

[Johnnywas]

weddings and funerals out of respect for the person inviting me.

[ASHEd]

Specifically, you speak about churches here, of which I would not set foot in. I would neither a mosque either.
However temples (buddhist, hindu, olympian etc.), shrines (shinto etc.) I really have no objection to and rather enjoy. A synagogue wouldn't be that bad either. It's really only Christianity and Islam that bugger with my head. My favourite place of 'worship' (although it isn't really worship for me, although it is so when attributed to Pagans) is outside in the open. I think appreciating Nature is important.

[Carja]

Only to attend a wedding or funeral.

[Compassionist]

[animist]

I don't see any great hypocrisy or problem about going to church. I was married in church because my wife (now of 36 years and still a sincere Xian) wanted to and did not mind that I was an atheist. I feel that most Xian faiths are harmless if irritating, and that most genuinely religious people are actually quite nice. I am much more concerned with being hypocritical about being in favour of vegetarianism in principle but not completely practising it. One more reason to visit the enemy camp - it is interesting to see how they are changing and adapting to the many challenges facing them!

[loz2286]

Occasionally...

I will attend weddings, funerals etc but will not sing, pray, kneel etc. I kneel to no one! Unfortunately as a teacher I am asked to attend harvest festivals, carol services and so on. I don't really object, except I object to the assumption by colleagues and management that I will go. No one has ever asked me if I am comfortable with it, even though I have always been clear that I am a non believer.

[animist]

Occasionally...

I will attend weddings, funerals etc but will not sing, pray, kneel etc. I kneel to no one! Unfortunately as a teacher I am asked to attend harvest festivals, carol services and so on. I don't really object, except I object to the assumption by colleagues and management that I will go. No one has ever asked me if I am comfortable with it, even though I have always been clear that I am a non believer.

just wondering what sort of school you teach in. The times are a' changin', as they always have been, and I would like to know the state of play re these watered-down festivals (harvest is barely Xian anyway)

[loz2286]

Occasionally...

I will attend weddings, funerals etc but will not sing, pray, kneel etc. I kneel to no one! Unfortunately as a teacher I am asked to attend harvest festivals, carol services and so on. I don't really object, except I object to the assumption by colleagues and management that I will go. No one has ever asked me if I am comfortable with it, even though I have always been clear that I am a non believer.

just wondering what sort of school you teach in. The times are a' changin', as they always have been, and I would like to know the state of play re these watered-down festivals (harvest is barely Xian anyway)

It's an independent school. Years ago it had a very strong Roman Catholic slant, though in recent years this has eased and no particular religious affiliation is claimed. There is a strong traditionalist aspect. While that is fine, from the point of discipline, uniform, values and so on, I'm struggling a bit with certain colleagues who are trying to force a Xian agenda. I have recently had some criticism from some parts, those who were put off by my promotion to Head of Pastoral as an open non-believer, and I do feel a little cornered. I have no problem, at present, with attending acts of worship during which I maintain a respectful silence. Recently an aged female colleague complained that, "We can hardly expect the children to sing up (the hymns) when the Head of Pastoral doesn't sing either." I was asked if I would oblige. I declined stating that, given my beliefs, it would be hypocritical were I to also sing. I reminded my colleague that JC had quite a lot to say about hypocrisy, allegedly. I added too that they would not have dared to ask the same question of a Muslim or Sikh man. It seems one is allowed to be anything you want, except a non-believer, in the eyes of some colleagues.

[Alan C.]

loz2286
It seems one is allowed to be anything you want, except a non-believer, in the eyes of some colleagues.

Not just in the eyes of some of your colleagues, none believers in the supernatural seem to get a bad press everywhere, do we claim persecution? No we don't; unlike some I could mention.

[Fia]

my promotion to Head of Pastoral as an open non-believer

It's clearly recognised by your school that despite non-belief you have a moral outlook. Well done you, loz, that in itself speaks volumes
And to my mind you're doing just the right thing by going but not politely pandering. Not making a fuss, but making the point. Your religious colleagues are trying it on. Stand fast. What's really important is that you are showing the young people in your care that one can be a good person and not be religious. More power to your elbow

[Nick]

I thoroughly agree with Fia's comments.

Recently an aged female colleague complained that, "We can hardly expect the children to sing up (the hymns) when the Head of Pastoral doesn't sing either." I was asked if I would oblige. I declined stating that, given my beliefs, it would be hypocritical were I to also sing. I reminded my colleague that JC had quite a lot to say about hypocrisy, allegedly. I added too that they would not have dared to ask the same question of a Muslim or Sikh man. It seems one is allowed to be anything you want, except a non-believer, in the eyes of some colleagues.

Perhaps the answer is not to force the kids to sing. How would your colleague respond to that?

Predictably, I expect. But maybe worth a try. You obviously have some support in high places. Do you know how much?

[loz2286]

I am certainly standing firm.

Just occasionally however I'd like a day where someone doesn't try to convert me. They'd soon get pissed off if I arrived in school every day with evidence to dispute what they believe in. I respect their right to believe what they wish, I think they're wrong, but I wish the same respect was accorded to me. Just because I do not believe in a deity it does not mean that my "faith" is any less deeply held.

Oh well... onwards... I've ordered Hawking's new book on Amazon, when I get it I'm going to sit in the staffroom reading it.

[animist]

Occasionally...

I will attend weddings, funerals etc but will not sing, pray, kneel etc. I kneel to no one! Unfortunately as a teacher I am asked to attend harvest festivals, carol services and so on. I don't really object, except I object to the assumption by colleagues and management that I will go. No one has ever asked me if I am comfortable with it, even though I have always been clear that I am a non believer.

just wondering what sort of school you teach in. The times are a' changin', as they always have been, and I would like to know the state of play re these watered-down festivals (harvest is barely Xian anyway)

It's an independent school. Years ago it had a very strong Roman Catholic slant, though in recent years this has eased and no particular religious affiliation is claimed. There is a strong traditionalist aspect. While that is fine, from the point of discipline, uniform, values and so on, I'm struggling a bit with certain colleagues who are trying to force a Xian agenda. I have recently had some criticism from some parts, those who were put off by my promotion to Head of Pastoral as an open non-believer, and I do feel a little cornered. I have no problem, at present, with attending acts of worship during which I maintain a respectful silence. Recently an aged female colleague complained that, "We can hardly expect the children to sing up (the hymns) when the Head of Pastoral doesn't sing either." I was asked if I would oblige. I declined stating that, given my beliefs, it would be hypocritical were I to also sing. I reminded my colleague that JC had quite a lot to say about hypocrisy, allegedly. I added too that they would not have dared to ask the same question of a Muslim or Sikh man. It seems one is allowed to be anything you want, except a non-believer, in the eyes of some colleagues.

seems a very odd setup, and you haven't quite answered all I asked. I mean, how many of the songs are hymns? As you say, someone of another faith would and could not be asked to sing Xian hyms, but do you think such a peson would have been appointed anyway? It is very easy for me to say this as an outsider, but I feel that the school should get itself straight - either pastoral care and so on is genuinely non-religious or it's not, and if it is, the kids should not be singing the songs of one faith rather than another

[Compassionist]

[lewist]

I had a member of staff in my school who was the child of a roman catholic mother and a jehovah's witness father. As a child she went to mass on Sunday morning and Kingdom hall in the afternoon. Oh, she was also a Canadian citizen because her father was Canadian. She was one of the most sensible and best balanced people I have ever known, probably despite her background.

The question is, Compassionist, will your wife go with you to meetings of Humani when you find them?

[Compassionist]

[tea_ismynewjesus]

Not sure what to answer for this one... I go to a church every other week, but for a Christian youth club kinda thing. I went there lots in my godly days and I recently started going again because there was no other way for me to see my fundie friends, who I've missed dearly.

I only go every other week so that I can stay at home and watch The Atheist Experience

[jamesjones950]

Not sure what to answer for this one... I go to a church every other week, but for a Christian youth club kinda thing. I went there lots in my godly days and I recently started going again because there was no other way for me to see my fundie friends, who I've missed dearly.

I only go every other week so that I can stay at home and watch The Atheist Experience

I sort of understand why you go....I think.
No, I don't, I'm being dishonest. I would find new friends and let the old ones miss you dearly.