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How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Compassionist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#21 Post by Compassionist » July 9th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:[ I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent.
Do you want the fittest to rule the world or the less fit?

The closest you will find in the animal world that has mitigated their penalty for not being the fittest will be the King Penguin. Have you seen the way they move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XygDTA7kQ

Regards
DL
I don't want anyone to rule the world. I want an egalitarian world free from all suffering, harm and death. Evolution is a blind and indifferent process which does not care about the suffering of the organisms. I hate this evil world full of suffering, harm and death. In this world, the evil ones prosper and the innocent ones perish. Think of all the predators which hunt and kill the preys. Think of all the genocides, murders, tortures, assaults, rapes, robberies, corruptions, frauds, thefts, accidents, diseases, etc. I don't know how anyone can be happy in a world like this. This reality is horrific. It is full of suffering and injustice. No wonder 84% of humans indulge in religious delusions of going to heaven or attaining Nirvana. Life is unbearable.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#22 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 12th, 2019, 12:24 am

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:[ I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent.
Do you want the fittest to rule the world or the less fit?

The closest you will find in the animal world that has mitigated their penalty for not being the fittest will be the King Penguin. Have you seen the way they move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XygDTA7kQ

Regards
DL
I don't want anyone to rule the world. I want an egalitarian world free from all suffering, harm and death. Evolution is a blind and indifferent process which does not care about the suffering of the organisms. I hate this evil world full of suffering, harm and death. In this world, the evil ones prosper and the innocent ones perish. Think of all the predators which hunt and kill the preys. Think of all the genocides, murders, tortures, assaults, rapes, robberies, corruptions, frauds, thefts, accidents, diseases, etc. I don't know how anyone can be happy in a world like this. This reality is horrific. It is full of suffering and injustice. No wonder 84% of humans indulge in religious delusions of going to heaven or attaining Nirvana. Life is unbearable.
Without a ruler to impose order, we would have chaos.
You would like that even less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2LMTRoWlA

I hate to burst your delusional bubble as to how good or evil the world is but listen to this first quick link and if you believe the data, there are stats at the end of the second link that shows just how well we are doing buddy.

You see a half full glass of goodness while I see an overflowing glass of it.

The third link is for a giggle if you recognise your thinking as false after the first two links. No peeking ahead now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ADgh3yCSdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLulcfyqrc0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oww4Ap3YZA

This next is just to show you the history of our collective benevolence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Regards
DL

Compassionist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#23 Post by Compassionist » July 12th, 2019, 2:59 pm

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#24 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 12th, 2019, 4:51 pm

I can see where you would be peeved at life and take the view you do.
That should not have you ignore that statistically, you are not the norm.

I have had my share of hardships as well but what did not kill me made me stronger.

You have a second and third wind on that and it has made you strong.

Do not be depressed or focus on your woes. Focus on how strong a mind and body you actually have.

I recognize that that is easy for me to say but likely hard for you to put into practice or you likely would have by now.

Good luck in the future. You have earned it.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#25 Post by Compassionist » July 12th, 2019, 8:11 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I can see where you would be peeved at life and take the view you do.
That should not have you ignore that statistically, you are not the norm.

I have had my share of hardships as well but what did not kill me made me stronger.

You have a second and third wind on that and it has made you strong.

Do not be depressed or focus on your woes. Focus on how strong a mind and body you actually have.

I recognize that that is easy for me to say but likely hard for you to put into practice or you likely would have by now.

Good luck in the future. You have earned it.

Regards
DL
I appreciate your empathy and advice and kind wishes. Thank you ever so much. I am not choosing to be depressed. I am suffering from low mood. I am not focusing on my suffering. I am focusing on all suffering. If it were up to me, no one would ever have suffered or died. If it were up to me, all sentient beings would be forever happy. The fact is that it is up not up to me. I long to put an end to suffering and death for all sentient beings but I don't know how to. All the gods of all the religions are totally unreliable because they are either evil or imaginary. I know that statistically, I am not the norm. I am the exception. That is why I must save the world. That is why I strive every moment to leave the world a much better place than I found it to be. That is why I do what I do. I will not stop until I have taught everyone to live and help live, to live and love. Please see: https://twitter.com/Can_With_Candle

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#26 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 12th, 2019, 10:02 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:I can see where you would be peeved at life and take the view you do.
That should not have you ignore that statistically, you are not the norm.

I have had my share of hardships as well but what did not kill me made me stronger.

You have a second and third wind on that and it has made you strong.

Do not be depressed or focus on your woes. Focus on how strong a mind and body you actually have.

I recognize that that is easy for me to say but likely hard for you to put into practice or you likely would have by now.

Good luck in the future. You have earned it.

Regards
DL
I appreciate your empathy and advice and kind wishes. Thank you ever so much. I am not choosing to be depressed. I am suffering from low mood. I am not focusing on my suffering. I am focusing on all suffering. If it were up to me, no one would ever have suffered or died. If it were up to me, all sentient beings would be forever happy. The fact is that it is up not up to me. I long to put an end to suffering and death for all sentient beings but I don't know how to. All the gods of all the religions are totally unreliable because they are either evil or imaginary. I know that statistically, I am not the norm. I am the exception. That is why I must save the world. That is why I strive every moment to leave the world a much better place than I found it to be. That is why I do what I do. I will not stop until I have taught everyone to live and help live, to live and love. Please see: https://twitter.com/Can_With_Candle
A worthy endeavour. May it live long and prosper.

Regards
DL

Compassionist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#27 Post by Compassionist » July 13th, 2019, 11:03 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:I can see where you would be peeved at life and take the view you do.
That should not have you ignore that statistically, you are not the norm.

I have had my share of hardships as well but what did not kill me made me stronger.

You have a second and third wind on that and it has made you strong.

Do not be depressed or focus on your woes. Focus on how strong a mind and body you actually have.

I recognize that that is easy for me to say but likely hard for you to put into practice or you likely would have by now.

Good luck in the future. You have earned it.

Regards
DL
I appreciate your empathy and advice and kind wishes. Thank you ever so much. I am not choosing to be depressed. I am suffering from low mood. I am not focusing on my suffering. I am focusing on all suffering. If it were up to me, no one would ever have suffered or died. If it were up to me, all sentient beings would be forever happy. The fact is that it is up not up to me. I long to put an end to suffering and death for all sentient beings but I don't know how to. All the gods of all the religions are totally unreliable because they are either evil or imaginary. I know that statistically, I am not the norm. I am the exception. That is why I must save the world. That is why I strive every moment to leave the world a much better place than I found it to be. That is why I do what I do. I will not stop until I have taught everyone to live and help live, to live and love. Please see: https://twitter.com/Can_With_Candle
A worthy endeavour. May it live long and prosper.

Regards
DL
Thank you very much. May everyone live long and prosper.

Compassionist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#28 Post by Compassionist » July 14th, 2019, 11:55 am

Gnostic Bishop, earlier I had said that I didn't want anyone to rule the world. By that I don't mean that I want anarchy. I mean that I don't want a dictatorship. Having a far-sighted and ethical government is essential for sustaining a civilisation. I think the whole world should be one democratic country where all of the human rights of everyone are respected and protected. Even though the Human Rights were declared in 1948 we still have not managed to protect these rights for everyone worldwide. We need to work together as a species much better than our past performance.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#29 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 14th, 2019, 4:48 pm

Compassionist wrote:Gnostic Bishop, earlier I had said that I didn't want anyone to rule the world. By that I don't mean that I want anarchy. I mean that I don't want a dictatorship. Having a far-sighted and ethical government is essential for sustaining a civilisation. I think the whole world should be one democratic country where all of the human rights of everyone are respected and protected. Even though the Human Rights were declared in 1948 we still have not managed to protect these rights for everyone worldwide. We need to work together as a species much better than our past performance.
No argument on this buddy.

You might remember that the U.N.'s human rights charter was never signed by most nations. Not even the U.S.
This is an old news now but I do not think it has changed.

I too believe we should have, as I put it, one Captain for spaceship earth.

As to my view of what our leader/Captain should be politically, I like what Socrates called a timocratic system with our modern revisions. We would end with a government of trained or educated individuals who earned the right to rule and they would rule for duty and honor, --- but would also be quite tyrannical where enforcement of the laws the people chose and had voted for.

I can think of no better system.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#30 Post by Compassionist » July 14th, 2019, 6:29 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:Gnostic Bishop, earlier I had said that I didn't want anyone to rule the world. By that I don't mean that I want anarchy. I mean that I don't want a dictatorship. Having a far-sighted and ethical government is essential for sustaining a civilisation. I think the whole world should be one democratic country where all of the human rights of everyone are respected and protected. Even though the Human Rights were declared in 1948 we still have not managed to protect these rights for everyone worldwide. We need to work together as a species much better than our past performance.
No argument on this buddy.

You might remember that the U.N.'s human rights charter was never signed by most nations. Not even the U.S.
This is an old news now but I do not think it has changed.

I too believe we should have, as I put it, one Captain for spaceship earth.

As to my view of what our leader/Captain should be politically, I like what Socrates called a timocratic system with our modern revisions. We would end with a government of trained or educated individuals who earned the right to rule and they would rule for duty and honor, --- but would also be quite tyrannical where enforcement of the laws the people chose and had voted for.

I can think of no better system.

Regards
DL
Timocracy means only property owners may participate in the government. I think we should include everyone - one vote for one person regardless of property ownership. For jobs in the public sector, private sector and the voluntary sector we should have meritocracy. Everyone should receive according to needs and contribute according to abilities. Everyone should have their human rights respected and protected by laws.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#31 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 14th, 2019, 7:36 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:Gnostic Bishop, earlier I had said that I didn't want anyone to rule the world. By that I don't mean that I want anarchy. I mean that I don't want a dictatorship. Having a far-sighted and ethical government is essential for sustaining a civilisation. I think the whole world should be one democratic country where all of the human rights of everyone are respected and protected. Even though the Human Rights were declared in 1948 we still have not managed to protect these rights for everyone worldwide. We need to work together as a species much better than our past performance.
No argument on this buddy.

You might remember that the U.N.'s human rights charter was never signed by most nations. Not even the U.S.
This is an old news now but I do not think it has changed.

I too believe we should have, as I put it, one Captain for spaceship earth.

As to my view of what our leader/Captain should be politically, I like what Socrates called a timocratic system with our modern revisions. We would end with a government of trained or educated individuals who earned the right to rule and they would rule for duty and honor, --- but would also be quite tyrannical where enforcement of the laws the people chose and had voted for.

I can think of no better system.

Regards
DL
Timocracy means only property owners may participate in the government. I think we should include everyone - one vote for one person regardless of property ownership. For jobs in the public sector, private sector and the voluntary sector we should have meritocracy. Everyone should receive according to needs and contribute according to abilities. Everyone should have their human rights respected and protected by laws.
I know that we would have to try to include more voters than property owners. The world has changed and as I said above I think, the old language would have to change. Land owner would likely become tax payers, as compared to tax takers. If tax takers and people on the dole, for instance, are allowed to vote, they will just vote for whoever gives them the biggest hand out and screw any other issue.

I think social programs and basically charity, not that they do not have benefits for all, should be determined by who gives it and not who takes it or needs it. The poor should not tell the rich how to spend their cash. A decent tax system should rule and not the poor.

There would be other areas that would be tweaked but honor and duty would be the main driver, which is absolutely not what we are using today to elect those that our oligarchs choose for us to make it seem like we live in anything but oligarchies.

Here is a kettle calling a pot black.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#32 Post by Compassionist » July 15th, 2019, 11:12 am

I think that those who are more fortunate (e.g. with wealth, health, education, intelligence, connections, etc.) should help the less fortunate. I think everyone should receive according to needs and contribute according to abilities. I think everyone should get one vote and everyone should have equal rights. We should all be conceived with rights and we should grow to have responsibilities which are proportionate to our abilities. Reality doesn't care about the suffering and deaths of living things. That's why 99.99% of all species to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct. That's why we must live and help live, live and love. I know there are elitists who don't care about the less fortunate and would be happy to let the poor die out. Indeed, this is what they did during famines worldwide. Instead of helping the famine victims they increased taxes and moved away food from the afflicted which led to the deaths of millions of people. Here are some examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... itish_rule
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Ben ... ne_of_1770
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

I told you about Can With Candle earlier: https://www.facebook.com/CanWithCandle and https://twitter.com/Can_With_Candle

Our Worldwide OBJECTIVES:

1. The saving of lives.

2. The advancement of health.

3. Preventing and relieving poverty.

4. Helping those in need due to age, ill health, disability, financial hardship and other disadvantages.

5. Advancing education.

6. Promoting equality and diversity.

7. Promoting religious and racial harmony.

8.The advancement of human rights, conflict resolution and reconciliation.

9. Advancing the arts, heritage, culture and science.

10.The advancement of citizenship and community development.

11. Protecting and improving the environment.

12. Promoting animal welfare.

13. The advancement of public participation in sports.

ACTIVITIES that fulfil our objectives:

1. Practising and promoting self-help, mutual help and altruism.

2. Making and promoting constructive changes within ourselves, in others and in the world.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#33 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 15th, 2019, 8:58 pm

Compassionist wrote:I think that those who are more fortunate (e.g. with wealth, health, education, intelligence, connections, etc.) should help the less fortunate. I think everyone should receive according to needs and contribute according to abilities..
Quite the wish list, but without the political and social will, we will not progress to those any faster than we are already doing.

A lot on your list just takes cash and the world is doing quite well on that score.

We pulled a full billion over the poverty line in the last 20 odd years and they estimate we will do the same again in the next 20.

We can do better should we will it but even if we do not, the pace we are setting is quite laudable.

Most other markers for the evils on your list are also at the best per capita levels that we have ever enjoyed.

Now if we could just stop spending billion and trillions world wide on our useless religions, we could make a hell of a dent and likely eliminate poverty in quick order.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#34 Post by Compassionist » July 16th, 2019, 10:44 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:I think that those who are more fortunate (e.g. with wealth, health, education, intelligence, connections, etc.) should help the less fortunate. I think everyone should receive according to needs and contribute according to abilities..
Quite the wish list, but without the political and social will, we will not progress to those any faster than we are already doing.

A lot on your list just takes cash and the world is doing quite well on that score.

We pulled a full billion over the poverty line in the last 20 odd years and they estimate we will do the same again in the next 20.

We can do better should we will it but even if we do not, the pace we are setting is quite laudable.

Most other markers for the evils on your list are also at the best per capita levels that we have ever enjoyed.

Now if we could just stop spending billion and trillions world wide on our useless religions, we could make a hell of a dent and likely eliminate poverty in quick order.

Regards
DL
Yes, we have come a long way in terms of progress but the world is still not an ideal world. We need to do much more. Malevolence, ignorance, superstition, oppression, etc. are still abundant. More than 99% of humans are still not vegans. We are still polluting the planet and our carbon footprint is still rising. We need to go carbon negative soon or else there will be lots of suffering and death due to climate change.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#35 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 16th, 2019, 3:19 pm

Compassionist

We are on the same page, but your focus might be putting the cart before the horse.

Getting political and social will changed to our focus has to come first and people are using their lower animal minds to ignore a problem that they do not feel as it is not right in front of their face.

Their awareness and shame of what we are passing down to our children has to be activated before the masses will decide to sacrifice for our children and start putting their resources towards our collective problems.

We need 30 years and do not have it.

Look at how long we have already been trying to build political/social will and it has hardly begun, as evidenced by your Vegan stat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

Regards
DL

Compassionist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#36 Post by Compassionist » July 16th, 2019, 7:14 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Compassionist

We are on the same page, but your focus might be putting the cart before the horse.

Getting political and social will changed to our focus has to come first and people are using their lower animal minds to ignore a problem that they do not feel as it is not right in front of their face.

Their awareness and shame of what we are passing down to our children has to be activated before the masses will decide to sacrifice for our children and start putting their resources towards our collective problems.

We need 30 years and do not have it.

Look at how long we have already been trying to build political/social will and it has hardly begun, as evidenced by your Vegan stat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

Regards
DL
Thanks for the video of the speech. What's the source of the speech? The objectives of our charity, Can With Candle, will collectively save the world if we can get enough people working on achieving the objectives. Many people already work towards these objectives and that's why the world is a better place now than it was 400 years ago or even 40 years ago. We are making progress but there is a long way to go. We need to be farsighted and focus on creating a sustainable multi-planet (preferably multi solar system and multi galactic and multi universal) civilisation which values life and ethical conduct. I am working on all of the objectives of Can With Candle. I can't fulfill all of the global objectives on my own. I need everyone to work together towards these goals. Everyone has rights and responsibilities and must pull together for the long-term benefit of humans and other living things. Ideally, we should genetically engineer all heterotrophs to be autotrophs so that we can all photosynthesise like the plants and no longer need to kill other living things in order to live. There should be no herbivores, carnivores and omnivores - only autotrophs who are sentient and 100% ethical 100% of the time.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#37 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 16th, 2019, 9:16 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Compassionist

We are on the same page, but your focus might be putting the cart before the horse.

Getting political and social will changed to our focus has to come first and people are using their lower animal minds to ignore a problem that they do not feel as it is not right in front of their face.

Their awareness and shame of what we are passing down to our children has to be activated before the masses will decide to sacrifice for our children and start putting their resources towards our collective problems.

We need 30 years and do not have it.

Look at how long we have already been trying to build political/social will and it has hardly begun, as evidenced by your Vegan stat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

Regards
DL
Thanks for the video of the speech. What's the source of the speech? The objectives of our charity, Can With Candle, will collectively save the world if we can get enough people working on achieving the objectives. Many people already work towards these objectives and that's why the world is a better place now than it was 400 years ago or even 40 years ago. We are making progress but there is a long way to go. We need to be farsighted and focus on creating a sustainable multi-planet (preferably multi solar system and multi galactic and multi universal) civilisation which values life and ethical conduct. I am working on all of the objectives of Can With Candle. I can't fulfill all of the global objectives on my own. I need everyone to work together towards these goals. Everyone has rights and responsibilities and must pull together for the long-term benefit of humans and other living things. Ideally, we should genetically engineer all heterotrophs to be autotrophs so that we can all photosynthesise like the plants and no longer need to kill other living things in order to live. There should be no herbivores, carnivores and omnivores - only autotrophs who are sentient and 100% ethical 100% of the time.
Mad as Hell is a 2014 documentary film about the web series The Young Turks and its host, Cenk Uygur. The film's title refers to a famous line uttered by the character Howard Beale in the 1976 film Network, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"[1]

As to a world of autotrophs, growers are already complaining of the problem of pollinating crops without bees.
Take all the wildlife out of our eco systems, including the grazers that produce fertilizers, and you might run into problems. You likely have that covered as you have studies these issues more than I.

Regardless, best of luck in growing your movement.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#38 Post by Compassionist » July 17th, 2019, 9:53 am

Thanks for telling me about where the speech comes from. We could have nanobots doing the pollinating if the autotrophic bees stop pollinating. I am not talking about wiping out existing living things. I am talking about genetically engineering them so that they can photosynthesise the way plants do. Being a vegan is not enough because vegans still kill plants. Also, the harvesting process kills many insects and small animals. I am envisioning a perfect world where there is no killing and suffering and every living thing is 100% ethical. We are far away from having the technology needed to achieve this. That's why I am focusing on what we can actually do at the present. Thank you.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#39 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 17th, 2019, 3:01 pm

Compassionist wrote:Thanks for telling me about where the speech comes from. We could have nanobots doing the pollinating if the autotrophic bees stop pollinating. I am not talking about wiping out existing living things. I am talking about genetically engineering them so that they can photosynthesise the way plants do. Being a vegan is not enough because vegans still kill plants. Also, the harvesting process kills many insects and small animals. I am envisioning a perfect world where there is no killing and suffering and every living thing is 100% ethical. We are far away from having the technology needed to achieve this. That's why I am focusing on what we can actually do at the present. Thank you.
You are welcome but let me end with saying that evolution forces animals to compete for resources and within species for reproduction rites.

It would be folly and disastrous to take the competition out of evolution. No evolution means extinction.
We also need nanobots now and not whenever they can make the ones you envisage.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#40 Post by Compassionist » July 17th, 2019, 7:09 pm

No evolution is not the cause of extinction. Failure to adapt to change is the cause for extinction. All individual members of a species eventually fail to adapt and consequently die. Most species are already extinct (as much as 99.99% of all species to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct because life is so harsh and unfair). Unless we wise up, we will also become extinct. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1lnxUXWGgE

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#41 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 17th, 2019, 7:20 pm

Compassionist wrote:No evolution is not the cause of extinction. Failure to adapt to change is the cause for extinction. All individual members of a species eventually fail to adapt and consequently die. Most species are already extinct (as much as 99.99% of all species to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct because life is so harsh and unfair). Unless we wise up, we will also become extinct. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1lnxUXWGgE
I agree that we are jeopardising our species, even to the next generation.

Who opened the window and let honor and duty out?

Shame on us all.

Regards
DL

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