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The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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coffee
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The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#1 Postby coffee » October 11th, 2018, 5:16 pm


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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#2 Postby coffee » October 31st, 2018, 5:25 pm

Make Votes Matter #MVM
‏@MakeVotesMatter

Elections in the UK are run by an elite club.
Nobody knows for sure who is a member, not even the members themselves.
But politicians are desperate to find out.

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 3320909826

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#3 Postby coffee » December 27th, 2018, 4:14 pm

"Proportional Representation is doing its job in Germany: the sooner we in the UK catch up with them, the better."

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 8444837888

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animist
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#4 Postby animist » December 28th, 2018, 10:23 am

coffee wrote:"Proportional Representation is doing its job in Germany: the sooner we in the UK catch up with them, the better."

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 8444837888
but isn't Gemany supposedly the awful driving force for the awful and undemocratic EU?

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#5 Postby coffee » December 28th, 2018, 11:34 am

animist wrote:
coffee wrote:"Proportional Representation is doing its job in Germany: the sooner we in the UK catch up with them, the better."

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 8444837888
but isn't Gemany supposedly the awful driving force for the awful and undemocratic EU?

There is a difference between Germany and the EU. The EU is definitely undemocratic.

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Alan H
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#6 Postby Alan H » December 28th, 2018, 11:55 am

coffee wrote:The EU is definitely undemocratic.
How? Please show your workings.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#7 Postby coffee » December 28th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Alan H wrote:
coffee wrote:The EU is definitely undemocratic.
How? Please show your workings.


Ukip is on Twitter and Facebook, go there and ask them, they will explain to you. They are the expert.

UKIP
‏Verified account

@UKIP

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Alan H
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#8 Postby Alan H » December 28th, 2018, 4:25 pm

coffee wrote:
Alan H wrote:
coffee wrote:The EU is definitely undemocratic.
How? Please show your workings.


Ukip is on Twitter and Facebook, go there and ask them, they will explain to you. They are the expert.
LOL! Still to come across anything that UKIP is expert in. Other than racism, that is, obviously.

But surprised you don't know. I've already provided you with the necessary information.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#9 Postby coffee » December 28th, 2018, 4:30 pm

>>LOL! Still to come across anything that UKIP is expert in. Other than racism, that is, obviously.<<

You just don't like their answers.

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Alan H
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#10 Postby Alan H » December 28th, 2018, 4:43 pm

coffee wrote:>>LOL! Still to come across anything that UKIP is expert in. Other than racism, that is, obviously.<<

You just don't like their answers.

Hope. They are a bunch of xenophobes, racists and liars. Only a fool and an idiot would believe what they say.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#11 Postby coffee » December 28th, 2018, 5:46 pm

Alan H wrote:
coffee wrote:>>LOL! Still to come across anything that UKIP is expert in. Other than racism, that is, obviously.<<

You just don't like their answers.

Hope. They are a bunch of xenophobes, racists and liars. Only a fool and an idiot would believe what they say.


I think that is a good joke, ha ha ha ha.

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#12 Postby coffee » January 2nd, 2019, 4:23 pm

Our First Past the Post voting system allows politicians to focus on short-term gain over long-term solutions.

Result: issues like housing, social care & climate change are often an afterthought.

#FairVotes would mean grown-up politics & better society!

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 1568444417

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Alan H
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#13 Postby Alan H » January 2nd, 2019, 4:48 pm

coffee wrote:Our First Past the Post voting system allows politicians to focus on short-term gain over long-term solutions.

Result: issues like housing, social care & climate change are often an afterthought.

#FairVotes would mean grown-up politics & better society!

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 1568444417
I'm not sure that alone would improve politics, particularly if it gives a yet louder voice to the racist minority parties.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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coffee
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Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 4:53 pm

Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#14 Postby coffee » January 3rd, 2019, 4:32 pm

Some votes were worth 20 time more than others in the last election, and some votes were worth 168 times more than others in 2015.

It's time for Proportional Representation so all votes count equally.

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 5348262912

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animist
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#15 Postby animist » January 4th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Alan H wrote:
coffee wrote:Our First Past the Post voting system allows politicians to focus on short-term gain over long-term solutions.

Result: issues like housing, social care & climate change are often an afterthought.

#FairVotes would mean grown-up politics & better society!

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 1568444417
I'm not sure that alone would improve politics, particularly if it gives a yet louder voice to the racist minority parties.
but it would also benefit the Liberal Democrats and Greens

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animist
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#16 Postby animist » January 4th, 2019, 3:21 pm

coffee wrote:
animist wrote:
coffee wrote:"Proportional Representation is doing its job in Germany: the sooner we in the UK catch up with them, the better."

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 8444837888
but isn't Gemany supposedly the awful driving force for the awful and undemocratic EU?

There is a difference between Germany and the EU. The EU is definitely undemocratic.
TBH, I do not believe in democracy. Of course I believe in democracy in a negative way, ie I do not believe in dictatorship of any kind, but I do not believe in the concept of democracy in the simplistic way in which the word is used to strengthen the claim of whoever is using the word to whatever it is they are proposing.

The 2016 referendum was democratic in a flawed way, as are all elections in different ways. Gonna put you on the spot here, coffee. Do you support another referendum on Brexit? If not, why not?

Anyway, to go back the EU itself, it is not definitely undemocratic since it contains elements of both democracy and non-democracy. The latter is a hard concept, but I would readily agree that direct democracy is the pure form of democracy - as in the Greek city states. Trouble is that we do nowadays live in much larger entities than Greek cities, and other factors come into play, These include local interests and common benefits. This means that large entities like nations and international organisations like the EU (or UN or Nato or OECD) may benefit their members even if their sheer size limits the directness of the link between their decisions and the wishes of their individual members. The EU is limited in the amount of democracy which it exhibits because it is not a superstate but a sort of confederation of states, so that the individual person is indeed separated by his/her own country from influencing EU decisions. The exception to this indirectness in EU democracy is the European Parliament, which is directly elected by EU voters. We need to encourage the emergence of the EU Parliament, but unfortunately we Brits have not done so. This is not the EU's fault, is it, coffee?

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#17 Postby coffee » January 9th, 2019, 4:49 pm

Of course people are frustrated with British politics, says @LesleyRiddoch, "we've got seats that haven't changed since the time of Queen Victoria".

Was that a nod of agreement @SarahChampionMP? We'd love to meet with you to discuss why the UK needs #ProportionalRepresentation!

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 7209956352

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#18 Postby coffee » January 11th, 2019, 4:41 pm

In #SouthYorkshire Labour won every single seat with 57% of the vote. The other 43% have no voice in parliament.

If we had Proportional Representation to #MakeSeatsMatchVotes, Labour would still have *most* seats in South Yorkshire, but other voters would have a voice too!

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 7048334341

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#19 Postby coffee » January 12th, 2019, 4:19 pm

Minority rule has no place in a democracy, yet in the UK minority rule is the norm.

The parties governing today were rejected by 57% of voters. The previous government was rejected by 63% of voters.

It's time for Proportional Representation.

http://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 0614821888

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coffee
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Re: The movement for Proportional Representation for UK elections

#20 Postby coffee » January 16th, 2019, 11:16 am

When voting for what you believe in means wasting your vote and letting in candidate you dislike the most, our democratic process has broken down.

It's time for Proportional Representation so everyone can vote for what they believe in.

https://twitter.com/MakeVotesMatter/sta ... 7831248896


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