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Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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coffee
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Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#1 Post by coffee » January 4th, 2017, 9:09 pm

Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

Very interesting, but will it work?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-scotland

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#2 Post by Alan H » January 4th, 2017, 10:06 pm

It is interesting. We'll need to see the outcome of the trials and the others going on elsewhere.h
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#3 Post by Nick » January 4th, 2017, 10:46 pm

coffee wrote:Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

Very interesting, but will it work?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-scotland
I really can't see how it can possibly work. But proposing the impossible is par for the course for the graun :wink:

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#4 Post by Alan H » January 4th, 2017, 11:43 pm

Nick wrote:
coffee wrote:Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

Very interesting, but will it work?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-scotland
I really can't see how it can possibly work. But proposing the impossible is par for the course for the graun :wink:
I for one welcome this social initiative by the Guardian...

Good grief.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#5 Post by Nick » January 4th, 2017, 11:49 pm

Alan H wrote:I for one welcome this social initiative by the Guardian...

Good grief.
Care to explain how it might work? :shrug:

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#6 Post by Alan H » January 4th, 2017, 11:59 pm

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:I for one welcome this social initiative by the Guardian...

Good grief.
Care to explain how it might work? :shrug:
I haven't claimed it will work - I said that it was interesting and that we'll need to see the outcome of this and the other trials that are taking place. You, however, claimed it was an impossible proposal and that you couldn't see how it can possibly work. Care to explain?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#7 Post by Nick » January 5th, 2017, 12:37 am

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:I for one welcome this social initiative by the Guardian...

Good grief.
Care to explain how it might work? :shrug:
I haven't claimed it will work - I said that it was interesting and that we'll need to see the outcome of this and the other trials that are taking place. You, however, claimed it was an impossible proposal and that you couldn't see how it can possibly work. Care to explain?
No, I suggested the Graun on occasion makes impossible claims, and that I couldn't see how it could work. You on the other hand, seem to think it might. Care to enlighten us why you think it might work? If you can't, it would seem to imply you'd support going for a trial without even a theoretical explanation of how it might work. Do you think that's wise?

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#8 Post by Alan H » January 5th, 2017, 1:02 am

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:Care to explain how it might work? :shrug:
I haven't claimed it will work - I said that it was interesting and that we'll need to see the outcome of this and the other trials that are taking place. You, however, claimed it was an impossible proposal and that you couldn't see how it can possibly work. Care to explain?
No, I suggested the Graun on occasion makes impossible claims
You seemed to imply that this was one of those impossible ones, but what claim do you think they made that is their own claim? I'd need to go back and re-read the article, but I suspect the Guardian (or even the reporter) never said it was going to work or it would save the planet or whatecver. They may well have said something about the aims of the trial, though.
and that I couldn't see how it could work.
Yes, you did say that, but provided no explanation, nor what you meant by 'work'.
You on the other hand, seem to think it might.
I really don't know where you got that notion from. As I said - and repeated - it is interesting but that we would need to see the outcome of the trials. I can't for the life of me see how you construe that to mean I think it might 'work'.
Care to enlighten us why you think it might work?
See previous comment.
If you can't, it would seem to imply you'd support going for a trial without even a theoretical explanation of how it might work. Do you think that's wise?
There you go again! I have never said I support it! Besides, my support or otherwise of it make not a jot of difference to those running the trial.

Do you see that a critical question here is what you mean by 'work'? Care to explain?

But here's a conundrum: if, for some definition of 'work', the trial gave positive results, what would that mean?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?


Nick
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#10 Post by Nick » January 9th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Alan H wrote:It is interesting. We'll need to see the outcome of the trials and the others going on elsewhere.h
If you are going to be so pedantic, Alan, perhaps you can define what you mean by "it", and "interesting".

As for trials, we are also trialing Brexit. Best not stop it, eh? :wink:

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#11 Post by Alan H » January 9th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:It is interesting. We'll need to see the outcome of the trials and the others going on elsewhere.h
If you are going to be so pedantic, Alan, perhaps you can define what you mean by "it", and "interesting".
Pedantic? Good grief. 'It' clearly refers to the the article and the trial. 'Interesting' means, well, 'interesting'. I'm sure both words are perfectly clear to most here.
As for trials, we are also trialing Brexit. Best not stop it, eh? :wink:
We're trialling it? News to me - and many others, I suspect - I thought this was the real thing? But if it's a trial, then it was unplanned, unanticipated, undefined and generally unknown - not a good start for a trial. When are we going to have any of it defined? But perhaps it's best for the Brexiteers not to have to define what on earth they think it all means. Previous attempts at that - by buffoon Boris in particular - have not turned out well for him.

But this is :offtopic: here...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#12 Post by Alan H » May 25th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

coffee
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Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 4:53 pm

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#13 Post by coffee » May 25th, 2017, 7:52 pm

Thanks for the video clip Alan, that was/is very interesting.

coffee
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#14 Post by coffee » September 7th, 2017, 8:03 pm

SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT WILL FUND BASIC INCOME EXPERIMENTS

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publica ... xperiments

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#15 Post by Alan H » September 7th, 2017, 8:22 pm

coffee wrote:SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT WILL FUND BASIC INCOME EXPERIMENTS

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publica ... xperiments
It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24047
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#16 Post by Alan H » September 11th, 2017, 11:02 am

Universal basic income: Half of Britons back plan to pay all UK citizens regardless of employment
Nearly half of Britons would support giving all citizens a cash allowance, regardless of whether they were employed, according to a new survey.

Once considered a policy belonging firmly to the radical left, polling by the Institute for Policy Research at the University of Bath found that 49 per cent of 18 to 75-year-olds supported the introduction of a Universal Basic Income (UBI).

If UBI were to be established in the UK, it would drastically overhaul the welfare state by providing a set payment to cover the basic needs for every citizen.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#17 Post by Nick » September 12th, 2017, 8:00 pm

coffee wrote:SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT WILL FUND BASIC INCOME EXPERIMENTS

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publica ... xperiments
Except, of course, the Scottish Government doesn't have any money, except what it extracts from UK citizens.

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#18 Post by Alan H » September 12th, 2017, 8:03 pm

Nick wrote:
coffee wrote:SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT WILL FUND BASIC INCOME EXPERIMENTS

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publica ... xperiments
Except, of course, the Scottish Government doesn't have any money, except what it extracts from UK citizens.
Good grief.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#19 Post by Nick » September 12th, 2017, 8:06 pm

Such penetrating alalysis, Alan! :rolleyes:

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Alan H
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Re: Universal basic income trials being considered in Scotland

#20 Post by Alan H » September 12th, 2017, 8:24 pm

Nick wrote:Such penetrating alalysis, Alan! :rolleyes:
Nick. For the financial year 2016/17, the Scottish Parliament has approximately £33.18 billion to spend, regardless of where it came from or whether you think it deserved it or whatever.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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