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2016 US election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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John G
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Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 2:44 am

Re: 2016 US election

#21 Postby John G » February 5th, 2016, 1:56 am

Latest post of the previous page:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/03/politics/ ... ace-prize/

And yes someone did nominate Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize. I had to check.

Guess it really comes down to who you know. He makes my teeth itch.

Nice timing. Snowden was at the top of the list. Not sure where Trump was but I think last.

I wonder what it cost.
A good learner is forever walking the narrow path between blindness and hallucination. ― Pedro Domingos, The Master Algorithm

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John G
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Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 2:44 am

Re: 2016 US election

#22 Postby John G » February 5th, 2016, 12:08 pm

As in interesting study counter to trump

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35499180

You get to see the two democratic leaders.

Bernie has my vote, I don't get one, by just staying to the topics.
A good learner is forever walking the narrow path between blindness and hallucination. ― Pedro Domingos, The Master Algorithm

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#23 Postby Dave B » February 24th, 2016, 8:17 am

It seems to be moving from farce to mockery.

Why don't they just do it via an audience voted reality show and drop the pretence?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#24 Postby Ken H » February 29th, 2016, 4:37 pm

Dave B wrote:It seems to be moving from farce to mockery.

Why don't they just do it via an audience voted reality show and drop the pretence?


Sounds like a winner! It would certainly save a lot of time and money. :D

BTW, If Hillary beats out Bernie (and it looks like a distinct possibility), Bernie could decide to run as an Independent. If Trump is denied the nomination (the Republicans could do that), then Trump could run as an independent also. Then we would have Hillary, Bernie, Trump, and Rubio/Cruze all running against each other. Who would win in that case? Bernie might win or he could divide the Democrat vote and Trump would win. The deciding factor would be the independent voters. Over 40% of Americans identify as independents. Minority voters would also be a factor.
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#25 Postby Alan H » February 29th, 2016, 5:56 pm

Ken H wrote:
Dave B wrote:It seems to be moving from farce to mockery.

Why don't they just do it via an audience voted reality show and drop the pretence?


Sounds like a winner! It would certainly save a lot of time and money. :D

BTW, If Hillary beats out Bernie (and it looks like a distinct possibility), Bernie could decide to run as an Independent. If Trump is denied the nomination (the Republicans could do that), then Trump could run as an independent also. Then we would have Hillary, Bernie, Trump, and Rubio/Cruze all running against each other. Who would win in that case? Bernie might win or he could divide the Democrat vote and Trump would win. The deciding factor would be the independent voters. Over 40% of Americans identify as independents. Minority voters would also be a factor.
What does Nate say?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
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animist
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Re: 2016 US election

#26 Postby animist » February 29th, 2016, 10:00 pm

Ken H wrote:
Dave B wrote:It seems to be moving from farce to mockery.

Why don't they just do it via an audience voted reality show and drop the pretence?


Sounds like a winner! It would certainly save a lot of time and money. :D

BTW, If Hillary beats out Bernie (and it looks like a distinct possibility), Bernie could decide to run as an Independent. If Trump is denied the nomination (the Republicans could do that), then Trump could run as an independent also. Then we would have Hillary, Bernie, Trump, and Rubio/Cruze all running against each other. Who would win in that case? Bernie might win or he could divide the Democrat vote and Trump would win. The deciding factor would be the independent voters. Over 40% of Americans identify as independents. Minority voters would also be a factor.
I did not know that there were so many independents. The conventional wisdom is that independent candidates seldom make much progress or even impact, and that the two-party system remains stronger than in the UK

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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#27 Postby Ken H » March 2nd, 2016, 1:21 am

Independents don't usually do well. George Wallace was the last to get any electoral votes when he won a few southern states in 1968. Ross Perot (Reform Party) got 18.9% of the vote in '92 and 8% in '96, but carried no states and got no electoral votes.

It's a bit different with Trump and Sanders though. Trump would be more popular than any of his party's picks and Sanders would lure those that didn't like Hillary, or Rubio/Cruz -- and there are plenty of those! Bernie also has his own enthusiastic liberal followers.

Alan wrote:
> What does Nate say?

Nate silver? I think he's having trouble with his predictions in this election. What I've been reading from him has been less than informative and a lot confusing!
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#28 Postby Alan H » March 2nd, 2016, 1:37 am

Ken H wrote:Alan wrote:
> What does Nate say?

Nate silver? I think he's having trouble with his predictions in this election. What I've been reading from him has been less than informative and a lot confusing!
Hmmm... It could be that he's OK with lots of data but outliers such as Trump may make predictions difficult. I did hear however, that Silver's apparent success had more to do with what he was able to get away with ignoring.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#29 Postby Dave B » March 2nd, 2016, 7:17 am

Looking even more like a Clinton/Trump contest. What a choice for America!

Trump seems to be getting off his rhetorical soapbox just a little, perhaps he is realising that this is not a game show after all.

Correspondent on radio just hinted that Trump - Putin talks could prove interesting.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#30 Postby Ken H » March 2nd, 2016, 3:06 pm

Dave B wrote:Looking even more like a Clinton/Trump contest. What a choice for America!

Trump seems to be getting off his rhetorical soapbox just a little, perhaps he is realising that this is not a game show after all.

Correspondent on radio just hinted that Trump - Putin talks could prove interesting.


Yeah, I think it will be Trump vs. Hillary. It would be hard for the anti-Trump Republicans to justify dumping him and remain credible. In that case, Hillary should thump Trump. However, the presidential debates should be interesting and she could blow it if Trump gets her too badly rattled. I think she is too seasoned for that though.

Re: Trump and Putin. Trump and Putin have praised each other and they both have a strong-man mentality. Lets hope they don't get the opportunity to meet as heads of state!
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#31 Postby Dave B » March 2nd, 2016, 3:25 pm

Wonder where Putin is on the feminist scale?

Come to that - where's Hilary on the masculinist scale!?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#32 Postby Ken H » March 2nd, 2016, 5:31 pm

Dave B wrote:Wonder where Putin is on the feminist scale?

Come to that - where's Hilary on the masculinist scale!?

I don't know about Putin, but I hear that Hillary can bench press over 100 kg! :D
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#33 Postby Alan H » March 4th, 2016, 10:30 am

Oh god... LAST NIGHT TRUMP DEFENDED HIS PENIS SIZE AT A REPUBLICAN DEBATE AND TWITTER HAD A MELTDOWN

I'm glad our politicians haven't stooped this low.

Oh! Wait. Cameron. Pigs...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#34 Postby Dave B » March 4th, 2016, 11:43 am

I loved the Twitter graph!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#35 Postby Dave B » March 6th, 2016, 10:17 am

Listening to various correspondents and commentators I think that I see one of the prime elements in the Trump's success.

Trump is something of , ''The American Dream'', embodied - the son of a fairly ordinary family who (by whatever means) built a large business empire.

Most of the last century, or more, of America's political history has involved a lot of careful posturing, promisses that were either vague or mere fantasies, cautious manouvering, playing to the highest bidder etc (much like any other political system!)

It has been said that Trump hates politics and I think this is so. Thus he has almost certainly has resonance with a large proportion of the ordinary people of the US, sick of the same old politics going around and around and rarely achieving anything for the plebs.

Not sure about his tax policies though, has the little man really thought that one out, or is that just another, not so glamourous, facet of ''Tthe American Dream'', those who have the means get the goodies? Ideally that should make those at the bottom of the pile aspirants to achive the summit - but the cake has a limited number of slices and the rationing system can be lethal.

America like a little bit of anarchy in its rulers, not sure if Trump really offers that but he does offer something close at the moment - the lack of a sustainable plan?

A kind of Social Dawinism that America cannot see is an essential component of its Dream. To the Victor goes the Tribute and the plebs scrabble in the dust.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#36 Postby Alan H » March 6th, 2016, 10:41 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#37 Postby Dave B » March 6th, 2016, 11:06 am

Excellent! :pointlaugh:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#38 Postby Alan H » March 18th, 2016, 7:05 pm

Please watch this video through to the end. Those who support Trump and the ignorant, violent hostility he intentionally fosters have no place calling themselves patriots. This is beyond politics. Trump is toxic. Trump is the only presidential candidate to have openly encouraged violence against protesters at rallies while flippantly offering to pay their legal bills.

"Knock the crap out of 'em, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell— I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees, I promise." —Donald Trump at his campaign rally on 2/1/16

There's no comparison. No other Republican or Democratic candidate has engaged in such hostile rhetoric towards women, minorities and the poor (not to mention outrageous falsehoods). Furthermore, none of the other candidates have used their podium at rallies to openly encourage their supporters to "rough up" protesters. Even Trump is too morally-bankrupt and insecure to take the high road, reveling in openly taunting, mocking and dehumanizing protesters who dare to speak out against his bigotry and divisive rhetoric. "Go home to mommy! GET OUT!"

Despite all the bluster, this is a man who thinks he can dish out the insults like a schoolyard brat, but is so thin-skinned he can't take any criticism himself, throwing tantrums, launching petty insults, and starting late night Twitter feuds with TV personalities. Trump is so insecure he felt the need to go on a nationally-televised debate to literally assure the American populace about his dick size -- unprompted. (http://youtu.be/nALb4lEbSbA)

This is presidential material? Should this petulant man-child have access to the nuclear codes and the full might of the US military? A reality-TV star with a string of failed businesses and a shitty lifestyle brand? He'd be a more fitting president of a frat house than The White House. Trump is not a stupid person. He is savvy enough to know exactly what the stupid and gullible want to hear and knows how to easily manipulate them. Trump inherited millions from his father. NEVER once in his life has Donald Trump known how it is to be an ordinary, working American -- nor does he care to understand.

Even the inheritance that granted Donald Trump such a great advantage, was itself enabled and buffered by governmental aid and financing programs. Trump is not a self-made man, he's just a professional con-man. A reality-TV star playing out his nasty infomercial for the American populace.

Want to start a conversation? This link displays your list of friends who are "fans" of Donald Trump's Facebook Page.
https://facebook.com/…/15308062…/likers/me/friends/intersect

The truth about Trump? Over 75% of Trump's 77 statements fact-checked by the Pulitzer-prize winning Politifact were determined to be false or misleading, an unprecedented amount for any politican they've previously researched. Read the reports, follow the cited sources and make your own conclusions.
http://www.politifact.com/…/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-cam…/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

"You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on." —Donald J. Trump, The Art of the Deal

Youtube Link
https://youtu.be/bTz7DlhlZiE

‪#‎MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain‬ ‪#‎Trump‬ ‪#‎Republican‬ ‪#‎Politics‬ ‪#‎GOP‬
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#39 Postby Dave B » March 18th, 2016, 9:20 pm

Bloody scary.

What will his equivalent to kristalnacht be I wonder?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#40 Postby Alan H » March 18th, 2016, 9:59 pm

Dave B wrote:Bloody scary.

What will his equivalent to kristalnacht be I wonder?
Indeed. Is he a bumbling buffoon or does he know exactly what he's doing?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#41 Postby Dave B » March 18th, 2016, 10:06 pm

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Bloody scary.

What will his equivalent to kristalnacht be I wonder?
Indeed. Is he a bumbling buffoon or does he know exactly what he's doing?
Well, he does not have Hitler's power of oratory from what I have heard but, does he need it in the US? He has hit on a rich vein of prejudice that has been suffering a severe, and worsening, aneurysm for a long time.

Even if he loses it could be too late.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015


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