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Cancer and red and processed meat

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Alan H
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Cancer and red and processed meat

#1 Postby Alan H » October 26th, 2015, 2:07 pm

You may have seen the scaremongering headlines today. This is from those very nice people at Cancer Research who know what they're talking about: Processed meat and cancer – what you need to
Does red and processed meat still have a place in a healthy diet?

None of this means that a single meat-based meal is ‘bad for you’. What it does mean is that regularly eating large amounts of red and processed meat, over a long period of time, is probably not the best approach if you’re aiming to live a long and healthy life. Meat is fine in moderation – it’s a good source of some nutrients such as protein, iron and zinc. It’s just about being sensible, and not eating too much, too often.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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jaywhat
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#2 Postby jaywhat » October 26th, 2015, 2:24 pm

Is it really scaremongering?

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Dave B
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#3 Postby Dave B » October 26th, 2015, 3:23 pm

I am wondering just how much of a problem this is. Processed food, especially smoked meats, have been a suspect for years, along with regular consumption of barbequed meats. Seem to remember ties with smoking, overheated sugars being the link IIRC.

Have not read up on it yet to see what, or whether, there are links with certain cultures.

Stick mainly to chicken and unsmoked fish mainly meself, but do fall foul to the odd bacon sarnie.

Just struck me the bread and cakes etc. also often contain burned sugars...

You are bound to be a tad biased,jaywhat :wink:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#4 Postby Altfish » October 26th, 2015, 3:43 pm

I do struggle with health warnings/scares.
Is there anything that doesn't cause cancer, if eaten in sufficient quantities?

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Tetenterre
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#5 Postby Tetenterre » October 26th, 2015, 4:00 pm

Altfish wrote:Is there anything that doesn't cause cancer, if eaten in sufficient quantities?
Tetrodotoxin? Hydrogen cyanide?
:D
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Tetenterre
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#6 Postby Tetenterre » October 26th, 2015, 4:20 pm

There was a wonderful exposition of this in either Infinite Monkey Cage or In Our Time:

Eating a fried breakfast daily increases the probability of contracting some ghastly affliction or other (I don't recall, but it doesn't really matter what it is) by about 20% compared to never eating a fried breakfast. Sounds frightening until you realise that you are raising the probability from 0.4% to 0.5%.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#7 Postby Alan H » October 26th, 2015, 4:29 pm

Tetenterre wrote:There was a wonderful exposition of this in either Infinite Monkey Cage or In Our Time:

Eating a fried breakfast daily increases the probability of contracting some ghastly affliction or other (I don't recall, but it doesn't really matter what it is) by about 20% compared to never eating a fried breakfast. Sounds frightening until you realise that you are raising the probability from 0.4% to 0.5%.
It's all about relative v absolute risks...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#8 Postby Altfish » October 26th, 2015, 5:35 pm

I have done some research and I can now conclude my findings...

Living may cause cancer. It is safer not to be born.

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Alan H
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#9 Postby Alan H » October 26th, 2015, 10:20 pm

A Rough Guide to the IARC’s Carcinogen Classifications
Today’s big news has been the story that the World Health Organisation (WHO) has classified processed meat (including bacon, ham, and salami) as a Group 1 carcinogen. This places it in the same group as smoking, which has led to a number of headlines claiming that it means the risk from the two is the same. It isn’t – and today’s post takes a close look at the International Agency for Research on Cancer’s classification system in order to explain why.



2015-10-26_22h19_09.png
2015-10-26_22h19_09.png (510.1 KiB) Viewed 2731 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#10 Postby Alan H » October 27th, 2015, 12:22 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Ninny
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#11 Postby Ninny » October 27th, 2015, 8:27 am

I think meat-eaters will look for flaws in the advice to eat less meat, and vegetarians will say "I told you so"!

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#12 Postby Altfish » October 27th, 2015, 8:33 am

Ninny wrote:I think meat-eaters will look for flaws in the advice to eat less meat, and vegetarians will say "I told you so"!

When a credible research paper which has been peer reviewed demonstrates that vegetarians live longer I will consider becoming a vegetarian. I still believe it is all about moderation.
These food alarms are all over the place, butter was bad, butter is now not so bad and margarines are dubious.
I have bacon about once a week, sausages about the same. Most of the meat I eat is fish or chicken, but I do eat red meat. I eat vegetables, when possible home grown.
I also drink beer, occasionally wine and spirits.

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Alan H
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#13 Postby Alan H » October 27th, 2015, 11:02 am

Altfish wrote:
Ninny wrote:I think meat-eaters will look for flaws in the advice to eat less meat, and vegetarians will say "I told you so"!

When a credible research paper which has been peer reviewed demonstrates that vegetarians live longer I will consider becoming a vegetarian. I still believe it is all about moderation.
I think it's fairly well established that vegetarians do live longer, but that it's not to do with not eating meat!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#14 Postby Dave B » October 27th, 2015, 11:11 am

Alan H wrote:
Altfish wrote:
Ninny wrote:I think meat-eaters will look for flaws in the advice to eat less meat, and vegetarians will say "I told you so"!

When a credible research paper which has been peer reviewed demonstrates that vegetarians live longer I will consider becoming a vegetarian. I still believe it is all about moderation.
I think it's fairly well established that vegetarians do live longer, but that it's not to do with not eating meat!
Do we hear about the veggies/vegans who suffer ill health due to their diets or their genotype? Not a lot!

Ken at last job, never owned a car, keen sportsman, veggie for decades, retired at 60 and suffered serious heart attack. Both parents had died of heart problems. It's as much in the toss of the genetic coin.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#15 Postby Altfish » October 27th, 2015, 3:25 pm

Alan H wrote:I think it's fairly well established that vegetarians do live longer, but that it's not to do with not eating meat!


Is it?
What you're saying is that vegetarians tend to be aware of fitness and health issues anyway, so probably cycle, go to gym or exercise and generally lay off alcohol etc.

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Alan H
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#16 Postby Alan H » October 27th, 2015, 3:27 pm

Altfish wrote:
Alan H wrote:I think it's fairly well established that vegetarians do live longer, but that it's not to do with not eating meat!


Is it?
What you're saying is that vegetarians tend to be aware of fitness and health issues anyway, so probably cycle, go to gym or exercise and generally lay off alcohol etc.
I can't cite the research, but that's my impression - it may be wrong, of course.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#17 Postby Alan H » October 27th, 2015, 3:34 pm

You'd need to dig deeper to read the basic research, but: Vegetarian diet and health problems
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#18 Postby Dave B » October 27th, 2015, 4:36 pm

So, has anyone done studies on cultures with a tradion of high consumption of meat over veg? Thinking mainly recent history of nstive Australians etc. Yes, they ate, even cultivated, plant food as well but possibly also large amounts of meat. And that woukd have been roasted over a fire, condidered a bad thing in this field.

Is it due to genetic drift in more "developed" cultures, or what, one might ask?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#19 Postby Altfish » October 27th, 2015, 5:19 pm

Surely if vegetarianism was such a health benefit a very high proportion of sportsmen and women would be vegetarian. Whilst there are many vegetarian sports men and women I don't believe the numbers are more than a relatively small proportion.
I stand to be proved wrong.

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Altfish
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Re: Cancer and red and processed meat

#20 Postby Altfish » October 27th, 2015, 5:21 pm

Alan H wrote:You'd need to dig deeper to read the basic research, but: Vegetarian diet and health problems

I'd rather see independent information - I'm sure the 'meat lobby' produce similar documents given alternative results


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