INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used. For further information, see our Privacy Policy. Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

2015 UK General Election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#41 Post by Alan H » February 2nd, 2015, 10:31 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:So, a man who apparently has a personal wealth of £7.5 billion (no, not million), who runs one of the best known high street shop chains in the UK, whose headquarters moved from the UK to Switzerland to reduce the tax they paid to the HMRC, whose profits increased 16% to £1 billion (no, not million) yet (allegedly) paid just £2 million (no, not billion) in tax globally, doesn't want us to vote for Labour.
No, he said it would be disastrous. And given his business nous, maybe he has a point. Of course, Labour has said no-one will listen because he lives in Monaco. Doesn't mean he's wrong, though, does it?
I think his meaning was quite clear. Of course, we do not know whether he said that because he is concerned about the prosperity of the UK as a whole, UK businesses, Boots on its own or his own personal wealth. What we do appear to know is that he is more concerned about Boots' profits and the tax they have to pay than contributing to the HMRC and the UK.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#42 Post by Altfish » February 2nd, 2015, 11:14 am

Miliband is self-imploding at the moment; Labour are rushing head-long into defeat and seem to be incapable of doing anything about it. It is frightening that a government ruling for the elite 1% has to do nothing to increase its lead over Labour.
The shambles in Scotland will mean almost wipe out there for Labour and the SNP will be in the wilderness trying to work with a Tory government.

It'd be funny if it was serious.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#43 Post by Alan H » February 2nd, 2015, 11:53 am

Altfish wrote:Miliband is self-imploding at the moment; Labour are rushing head-long into defeat and seem to be incapable of doing anything about it. It is frightening that a government ruling for the elite 1% has to do nothing to increase its lead over Labour.
The shambles in Scotland will mean almost wipe out there for Labour and the SNP will be in the wilderness trying to work with a Tory government.

It'd be funny if it was serious.
Indeed. Now is the time for strong leadership and show that they are a viable and trustworthy alternative to the SelfServatives. That really shouldn't be that difficult.

It's been claimed that Stefano Pessina's remarks were 'taken out of context', so maybe he was urging us to vote Labour...

Given that they were reported in the Torygraph...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#44 Post by Altfish » February 2nd, 2015, 7:31 pm

The Grauniad sums it up in this article....

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... -get-worse

COME ON MILIBAND - DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
Fortitude
Posts: 6
Joined: January 30th, 2015, 10:39 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#45 Post by Fortitude » February 2nd, 2015, 9:48 pm

Alan H wrote:Indeed. Now is the time for strong leadership and show that they are a viable and trustworthy alternative to the SelfServatives. That really shouldn't be that difficult.
It's proven difficult so far however, Labour has done nothing but wash around the past few years and as of yet seem to have no solid plan in regards to anything, for all intents and purposes they seem to be just sprouting out nice phrases that no sane person could disagree with.
Insightful and slightly pretentious inspirational quote.
~Famous Individual, probably an Author as well~

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#46 Post by Alan H » February 2nd, 2015, 11:26 pm

Fortitude wrote:
Alan H wrote:Indeed. Now is the time for strong leadership and show that they are a viable and trustworthy alternative to the SelfServatives. That really shouldn't be that difficult.
It's proven difficult so far however, Labour has done nothing but wash around the past few years and as of yet seem to have no solid plan in regards to anything, for all intents and purposes they seem to be just sprouting out nice phrases that no sane person could disagree with.
That's definitely a very big issue. We need a big swing to the left to undo the societal harm this lot are doing. The biggest fear is if the Tories have any power after the election.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#47 Post by Altfish » February 3rd, 2015, 7:53 am

A problem is that the left has fragmented more than the right. Even UKIP appear to be harming Labour as much as the Tories.
In England The Greens are stealing Labour voters and the SNP in Scotland appear to be heading for a landslide.
I think every Labour MP (especially those in positions of power) should be given Nick Cohen's book "What's Left?" and told to read it and learn. It explains precisely where they have gone wrong and continue to go wrong.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#48 Post by Nick » February 3rd, 2015, 12:16 pm

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:So, a man who apparently has a personal wealth of £7.5 billion (no, not million), who runs one of the best known high street shop chains in the UK, whose headquarters moved from the UK to Switzerland to reduce the tax they paid to the HMRC, whose profits increased 16% to £1 billion (no, not million) yet (allegedly) paid just £2 million (no, not billion) in tax globally, doesn't want us to vote for Labour.
No, he said it would be disastrous. And given his business nous, maybe he has a point. Of course, Labour has said no-one will listen because he lives in Monaco. Doesn't mean he's wrong, though, does it?
I think his meaning was quite clear.
Yup, that Labour would be disastrous for the economy.


And what is Miliband's response?
Daily Telegraph wrote:Discussing taxation, Mr Miliband said: “This is in the news at the moment because yesterday the chairman of Boots started telling people how to vote in the UK general election. Well, it turns out that the chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes.
Well, as the chairman is Italian, and lives abroad, no tax is due in the UK, so therefore cannot have been avoided. Or is HMRC now entitled to tax anyone in the world it so chooses? Donald Trump is a rich man. Maybe HMRC should send him a tax demand....? :idea:

The man's either mendacious or an idiot.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#49 Post by Alan H » February 3rd, 2015, 1:52 pm

Nick wrote:Well, as the chairman is Italian, and lives abroad, no tax is due in the UK, so therefore cannot have been avoided. Or is HMRC now entitled to tax anyone in the world it so chooses? Donald Trump is a rich man. Maybe HMRC should send him a tax demand....?
:laughter:
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#50 Post by Altfish » February 4th, 2015, 8:14 pm

I think the point Miliband was trying to make (trying being the operative word) was that it was a non-UK resident who as head of Boots plc has moved their tax affairs abroad (ie the Tory tax regime isn't good enough either)

btw Is it a coincidence that he lives in Monaco, a state that has no income tax, low business taxes, and is well known for being a tax haven? Yet he, a serial tax avoider, still feels qualified to pontificate on UK tax matters

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#51 Post by animist » February 5th, 2015, 1:09 am

Altfish wrote:A problem is that the left has fragmented more than the right. Even UKIP appear to be harming Labour as much as the Tories.
In England The Greens are stealing Labour voters and the SNP in Scotland appear to be heading for a landslide.
OTOH the SNP are much more likely to support a Labour government than a Tory one. This research is I hope correct in countering what you say about Ukip:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... finds.html

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#52 Post by Altfish » February 5th, 2015, 5:59 am

SNP's support for Labour won't come cheap; in fact losing the referendum could be a bloody good move for Scotland.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#53 Post by Nick » February 5th, 2015, 11:25 am

Altfish wrote:SNP's support for Labour won't come cheap; in fact losing the referendum could be a bloody good move for Scotland.
Maybe, given the price of oil, the Labour party could threaten the SNP with independence... :wink:

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#54 Post by Nick » February 5th, 2015, 11:29 am

Altfish wrote:I think the point Miliband was trying to make (trying being the operative word) was that it was a non-UK resident who as head of Boots plc has moved their tax affairs abroad (ie the Tory tax regime isn't good enough either)

btw Is it a coincidence that he lives in Monaco, a state that has no income tax, low business taxes, and is well known for being a tax haven? Yet he, a serial tax avoider, still feels qualified to pontificate on UK tax matters
I'd have thought he was an ideal person to give some idea of what might attract multinational companies to invest and operate in and from the UK!

And I'd suggest he was more commenting on Miliband's perceived anti-business stance, rather than just tax matters. Again, I'd say his opinion was rather relevant, wouldn't you?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#55 Post by Alan H » February 5th, 2015, 11:47 am

Nick wrote:I'd have thought he was an ideal person to give some idea of what might attract multinational companies to invest and operate in and from the UK!
That would depend on what the aim was, wouldn't it?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#56 Post by Altfish » February 5th, 2015, 5:07 pm

Nick wrote:
Altfish wrote:I think the point Miliband was trying to make (trying being the operative word) was that it was a non-UK resident who as head of Boots plc has moved their tax affairs abroad (ie the Tory tax regime isn't good enough either)

btw Is it a coincidence that he lives in Monaco, a state that has no income tax, low business taxes, and is well known for being a tax haven? Yet he, a serial tax avoider, still feels qualified to pontificate on UK tax matters
I'd have thought he was an ideal person to give some idea of what might attract multinational companies to invest and operate in and from the UK!

And I'd suggest he was more commenting on Miliband's perceived anti-business stance, rather than just tax matters. Again, I'd say his opinion was rather relevant, wouldn't you?
If opinions of serial tax avoiders are relevant, then yes.

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#57 Post by animist » February 5th, 2015, 8:19 pm

Altfish wrote:
Nick wrote:
Altfish wrote:I think the point Miliband was trying to make (trying being the operative word) was that it was a non-UK resident who as head of Boots plc has moved their tax affairs abroad (ie the Tory tax regime isn't good enough either)

btw Is it a coincidence that he lives in Monaco, a state that has no income tax, low business taxes, and is well known for being a tax haven? Yet he, a serial tax avoider, still feels qualified to pontificate on UK tax matters
I'd have thought he was an ideal person to give some idea of what might attract multinational companies to invest and operate in and from the UK!

And I'd suggest he was more commenting on Miliband's perceived anti-business stance, rather than just tax matters. Again, I'd say his opinion was rather relevant, wouldn't you?
If opinions of serial tax avoiders are relevant, then yes.
they may well be counter-productive

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#58 Post by Nick » February 6th, 2015, 10:03 am

Altfish wrote:If opinions of serial tax avoiders are relevant, then yes.
Whether his tax affairs comply with your proclivities is irrelevant to his opinion, as just the sort of person who controls investment decisions, about Labour's expected affect on them. Is it really Miliband's policy to stick his fingers in his ears, sing, la-la-la-I'm-not-listening, and then wonder why business decides to invest somewhere else...?


And btw, before you shout too loudly about companies having their head-quarters in "foreign" countries, just think how many "foreign" multi-nationals are based in London. Do you really want them to disappear?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#59 Post by Altfish » February 6th, 2015, 12:04 pm

"proclivities" - good word, had to look that up

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#60 Post by Altfish » February 6th, 2015, 12:10 pm

Nick wrote:
Altfish wrote:If opinions of serial tax avoiders are relevant, then yes.
Whether his tax affairs comply with your proclivities is irrelevant to his opinion, as just the sort of person who controls investment decisions, about Labour's expected affect on them. Is it really Miliband's policy to stick his fingers in his ears, sing, la-la-la-I'm-not-listening, and then wonder why business decides to invest somewhere else...?


And btw, before you shout too loudly about companies having their head-quarters in "foreign" countries, just think how many "foreign" multi-nationals are based in London. Do you really want them to disappear?
A few things here, first of all my opinion of Miliband is well publicised on here, he is useless, so you're singing to the choir when you criticise him.
Secondly, I do think peoples inclinations are very relevant to any discussion; if I'm talking about religion any opinions by Dawkins or Welby are steeped in bias and I take in cautiously.
Regarding companies having head quarters in foreign countries - no problem with it EXCEPT when they are doing it to avoid paying tax that helps pay for the roads, schools, hospitals, etc, etc that help this country function efficiently and ensure their business can thrive.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#61 Post by Alan H » February 6th, 2015, 12:24 pm

Altfish wrote:Regarding companies having head quarters in foreign countries - no problem with it EXCEPT when they are doing it to avoid paying tax that helps pay for the roads, schools, hospitals, etc, etc that help this country function efficiently and ensure their business can thrive.
Indeed. And when they are dodging tax in this country and not contributing to HMRC as they would if they did have their headquarters here, it's the rest of us who have no option - and indeed who are quite happy to pay our taxes - who then have to foot the bill for all those essentials as well as for the Housing Benefit and other state aid necessary because said company is paying its workers the minimum wage - or less..
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Post Reply