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Petition to abolish apostasy laws

Any topics that are primarily about humanism or other non-religious life stances fit in here.
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VINDICATOR
Posts: 461
Joined: December 22nd, 2016, 11:07 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#21 Postby VINDICATOR » April 4th, 2018, 3:12 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Dear Alan,
It's people fighting each other because of their religion, ie. religious wars. A religion is ok if it keeps to the spiritual realm, like minding the "after life". It's when a religion is used as a scam to conquor and plunder, like Islam creating the ISIS Caliphate, that it should be destroyed!

Zeff
Posts: 142
Joined: August 6th, 2016, 2:13 pm

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#22 Postby Zeff » April 4th, 2018, 5:21 pm

I signed the petition under my real name. As for religions fighting each other, tribalism is required for human conflict. Nationalism, Ideology &/or religion provide the basis. Religion is superstition and the easiest to undermine.
Muslims may be most influenced by fellow Muslims, as with any tribe, but that doesn't mean pressure from outside the tribe has no influence.

I agree it is best to take the most positive view of attempts to counter any injustice. If we desire people to support our efforts it is best we support theirs.

Compassionist
Posts: 3288
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#23 Postby Compassionist » April 5th, 2018, 8:19 am

Zeff wrote:I signed the petition under my real name. As for religions fighting each other, tribalism is required for human conflict. Nationalism, Ideology &/or religion provide the basis. Religion is superstition and the easiest to undermine.
Muslims may be most influenced by fellow Muslims, as with any tribe, but that doesn't mean pressure from outside the tribe has no influence.

I agree it is best to take the most positive view of attempts to counter any injustice. If we desire people to support our efforts it is best we support theirs.

Thank you. I agree.

Zeff
Posts: 142
Joined: August 6th, 2016, 2:13 pm

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#24 Postby Zeff » April 5th, 2018, 12:45 pm

I notice there's a number of these petitions..
https://www.change.org/p/abolish-blasphemy-laws
As usual, humanist, atheist, secular, Skeptic-in-the-Pub, Brights and other groups of freethinkers aren't coordinating our efforts. The Christians have their own petition too, apparently. It would help if Atheist Alliance and IHEU members had a coordinating committee. Someone needs to do it.

VINDICATOR
Posts: 461
Joined: December 22nd, 2016, 11:07 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#25 Postby VINDICATOR » April 5th, 2018, 2:53 pm

Islam cannot be reformed by the infidels, the Muslims have to do it themselves.. When an infidel knocks their religion it just makes them firmer in their beliefs. Take a look at the Reformation of the Christian Church. It was entirely a revolution from inside the Church. It began in 1517 when the German monk Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Church door. The struggle to smash the dictatorship of the Church was very bloody. In Germany, 40% of the population was killed! But the Reformation was successful and ended the dictatorship of the Church. Without this Reformation there would be no modern Europe.
Where is Islam's "Martin Luther"?

Compassionist
Posts: 3288
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#26 Postby Compassionist » April 5th, 2018, 10:36 pm

Zeff wrote:I notice there's a number of these petitions..
https://www.change.org/p/abolish-blasphemy-laws
As usual, humanist, atheist, secular, Skeptic-in-the-Pub, Brights and other groups of freethinkers aren't coordinating our efforts. The Christians have their own petition too, apparently. It would help if Atheist Alliance and IHEU members had a coordinating committee. Someone needs to do it.

Thank you for the link to the above petition. This petition is for abolishing blasphemy laws. The petition I posted is for ending Apostasy Laws, Discrimination & Violence against Islam's Non Believers. Apostasy is leaving one's religion. In Islam, apostasy is punishable by the death penalty.

Compassionist
Posts: 3288
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#27 Postby Compassionist » April 5th, 2018, 10:38 pm

VINDICATOR wrote:Islam cannot be reformed by the infidels, the Muslims have to do it themselves.. When an infidel knocks their religion it just makes them firmer in their beliefs. Take a look at the Reformation of the Christian Church. It was entirely a revolution from inside the Church. It began in 1517 when the German monk Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Church door. The struggle to smash the dictatorship of the Church was very bloody. In Germany, 40% of the population was killed! But the Reformation was successful and ended the dictatorship of the Church. Without this Reformation there would be no modern Europe.
Where is Islam's "Martin Luther"?

Given the number of ex-Muslims and critiques who have been killed by the Islamists I think it is highly unlikely that there will ever be a reformation of Islam.

VINDICATOR
Posts: 461
Joined: December 22nd, 2016, 11:07 am

Re: Petition to abolish apostasy laws

#28 Postby VINDICATOR » April 7th, 2018, 5:04 am

I forgot to say that without the Reformation we would still believe that the Earth is the middle of the universe and anyone saying "no" would be burned at the stake!


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