INFORMATION
This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used.
For further information, see our Privacy Policy.
Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.
We are not accepting any new registrations.
This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used.
For further information, see our Privacy Policy.
Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.
We are not accepting any new registrations.
What shall it profit a man?
What shall it profit a man?
Although an atheist, I find that many of the works of organised religion are useful, beautiful and occasionally both. I suppose the concentrated efforts of humans towards an end are likely to be.
The literary phrase that appeals to me most, as an idealist, is 'What shall it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and loseth his very soul'. Ok, Nietzche might call this slave mentality and perhaps, as someone who is not rich or powerful, his criticism applies to me. However, if this phrase is to be taken seriously - leaving aside the gender issue - what word should be used for 'soul'. Milton refers of course to something immortal. I suppose integrity is a possibility, but can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality, spirit (too non-materialist for me) or psychoanalysis (something I hate more than religion - some would say it is a religion).
I'm back in England at the moment, on a becalmed sea.
The literary phrase that appeals to me most, as an idealist, is 'What shall it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and loseth his very soul'. Ok, Nietzche might call this slave mentality and perhaps, as someone who is not rich or powerful, his criticism applies to me. However, if this phrase is to be taken seriously - leaving aside the gender issue - what word should be used for 'soul'. Milton refers of course to something immortal. I suppose integrity is a possibility, but can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality, spirit (too non-materialist for me) or psychoanalysis (something I hate more than religion - some would say it is a religion).
I'm back in England at the moment, on a becalmed sea.
http://www.coledavis.org - insight analyst, specialist in the interpretation of surveys for charities and education
http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction
http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Welcome back, Cole.
Emma
Humanity? Conscience?coledavis wrote: ... can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality, spirit (too non-materialist for me) or psychoanalysis (something I hate more than religion - some would say it is a religion).
Emma
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Hi, Cole, my thesaurus offers, amongst others, psyche, essence, heart, core, in terms of single words - otherwise it's two worders like "animating principle" and "vital/driving force".but can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality,
Otherwise I agree with you about the poetry of the religious usage of language. What does it matter who invented or uses a phrase or saying if that saying has a universal value?
Bugger Nietzche, I think he was a miserable sod anyway!
Perhaps we need to coin another word - maybe ask the BHA to run a competition for entries to a "Humanist Thesaurus" or something.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Hmm. I've just noticed that the English Revised Version and American Standard Version both have: "For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?" In Greek (Stephen's Textus Receptus, 1550) it's: τι γαρ ωφελησει ανθρωπον εαν κερδηση τον κοσμον ολον και ζημιωθη την ψυχην αυτου. And the word ψυχην seems to be a form of ψυχή (psyche), meaning breath, or spirit, or soul, or life, or life force.
What does the question mean anyway? When I look at the whole passage, rather than just that isolated phrase, it doesn't seem like poetry to me, even in the King James version; it seems like the ravings of a madman:
What does the question mean anyway? When I look at the whole passage, rather than just that isolated phrase, it doesn't seem like poetry to me, even in the King James version; it seems like the ravings of a madman:
Emma34And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. 36For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: November 13th, 2007, 2:55 pm
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Self respect......?coledavis wrote:..... can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality,........
Peter Angus
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Stripped of any purely religious connotations I do feel that there is a kind of poetry in many Bible passages - there is a lot of basic common sense and "neutral" stuff in there. I can well imagine similar phrases running off the end of Bill Shakespeare's quill.it doesn't seem like poetry to me, even in the King James version; it seems like the ravings of a madman:
There again, there are those that do not like old Bill or any such stuff!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Not a keen Shakespeare man myself, although Macbeth is an excellent play. I think the best of Ben Jonson is much under-rated; unlike Shakespeare's comedies, modern people can find The Alchemist amusing.
http://www.coledavis.org - insight analyst, specialist in the interpretation of surveys for charities and education
http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction
http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction
Re: What shall it profit a man?
I keep saying that I should look further into Ben Jonson, he provided one of my favourite quotes, " Language most shows a man; speak that I might see thee."
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
Re: What shall it profit a man?
I like that. I also thought of "peace of mind".peterangus wrote:Self respect......?coledavis wrote:..... can anyone suggest an alternative word to soul which doesn't ring of immortality,........
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Honour, perhaps
Re: What shall it profit a man?
I would agree with Emma on both counts. Taking Cole's quotation on it's own, I'd choose "humanity", but taking the biblical quotation as a whole, it seems perilously close to a christian call to Jihad.
Re: What shall it profit a man?
Innermost sentimental spirit.
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience