INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used.

For further information, see our Privacy Policy.

Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

We are not accepting any new registrations.

Jeremy Clarkson

Enter here to talk about books, art, literature, film, TV and anything else to do with popular culture.
Message
Author
User avatar
Tetenterre
Posts: 3244
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#61 Post by Tetenterre » October 31st, 2012, 10:55 am

Latest post of the previous page:

I may need to don armour after saying this :wink: , but there are bits of what Clarkson says that I agree with, and I think Miliband is plain wrong. Perhaps we should look at the message, not the messenger?

I think Clarkson is correct that jumping in front of a train is a pretty selfish way to end one's life. (I also concede that, when someone is suffering from, say, depression, this sort of selfishness is a manifestation of the illness, and arises more from thoughtlessness than an intent to disrupt the lives of other people. However, it is still selfish.) A friend, with whom I have had drinks-and-quiz most weeks for several years often travels back from working in London; several times a year his train is delayed by "jumpers". However, I mention this only to highlight how relatively frequent it is, not because I think the delay to the journeys of thousands of people is the most important issue here.

The father of a former pupil of mine is a train driver. He was off work for months, receiving counselling and therapy, after having hit a "jumper". He still has occasional nightmares. From what I understand, it is something that many train drivers fear and there are lines that have higher incidences of suicide than others, which drivers hope not to be rota'd on. Then there is the emergency services. A human being that has been hit by tons of fast-travelling metal no longer looks like a human being (same applies to high-speed car crashes). Decapitations and limb amputations are commonplace; internal organs can be ripped off their "tubes". They don't always find all the bits. This is the reality of the situation. I don't think anybody enjoys having to deal with the aftermath of this sort of thing. Perhaps more concern should be shown for these people?

Miliband was jumping on a populist anti-Clarkson bandwagon. Clarkson made no comment at all about people who are mentally ill; he commented on dead people who had committed suicide. They obviously had been mentally ill before they killed themselves but, harsh as it may seem, once they are dead it is a fait accompli and it is too late to do anything about it. The time to address the issue of mental illness, from the perspective of both treatment and public attitudes to it, is when people are alive. As far as I can see, Clarkson made no reference at all to that.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#62 Post by Dave B » October 31st, 2012, 1:22 pm

I agree with you that using a train to commit suicide is incredibly disturbing to the driver and all that witness the act, not to mention the effects of delays etc.

Problem is I wonder if one can sensibly say that a person who does this was entirely sane at the time of the event. No point in calling them names if they are not "in a stable state of mind". We all do or say stupid things due to pressure or anger, things we wish to immediately retract or correct - that's a reversible "loss of mental stability", suicide is more fundamental and final.

The real point is what can we do for those who suffer severe depression or anxiety, whether clinical or reactionary. So far mental health has been shoved on the shelf, behind brick walls or just plain ignored. Ignore the warning signs from someone who has a strong combination of depression and anger against society and they may be tempted to "demonstrate" their condition in the most blatant, public, way they can - to the detriment of all.

Who's fault is this? The suicide's or that of the society that could not offer the support and treatment he or she needed? The GPs who could not recognise the depth of the problem, the hard pushed psychological and psychiatric units in the NHS? The few specialised hospitals left after the near disastrous "Care in the Community" doctrine closed the rest down and no-one wanted a "Half-way House" on their road or near their kids' school?

Or does it rest on the shoulders of society and the government?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

User avatar
Tetenterre
Posts: 3244
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#63 Post by Tetenterre » October 31st, 2012, 2:01 pm

Dave B wrote:The real point is what can we do for those who suffer severe depression or anxiety,
Entirely agree.
Who's fault is this? The suicide's or that of the society that could not offer the support and treatment he or she needed? The GPs who could not recognise the depth of the problem, the hard pushed psychological and psychiatric units in the NHS?
I don't think that it is right to apportion blame; it can be really difficult to recognise mental illness, even (especially?) for the person who is ill.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#64 Post by Nick » March 12th, 2015, 5:43 pm

Clarkson's in the soup again.

My thoughts? First of all, that we don't have enough info. Secondly, that, if true, then he perhaps he should be charged with assault, and or a civil suit. If he's got any sense (and if the reports are true), he should reach a suitable settlement (either verbal, written, financial or whatever) with the producer. But banned from the BBC? Are they nuts? :puzzled: And do we want to live in a world where a single rush of blood to the head should have such a dramatic outcome?

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#65 Post by Fia » March 12th, 2015, 5:55 pm

I still think he's an overpaid, over-indulged and pompous arse.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#66 Post by Alan H » March 12th, 2015, 5:59 pm

+1

The staggering thing I found out yesterday is that he is only 55...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#67 Post by Dave B » March 12th, 2015, 6:13 pm

I don't like the bloke and think he has allowed himself to fall into the trap of a manufactured image, pandering to his friends. I read an article by him, some time ago, about why people choose their car. Yes, it was sarcastic but no more so than many satire blogs - he wrote quite well and gave me a laugh.

But, let the image take you over and you will inevitably suffer, you start to lose the big picture (as Farage is doing.)

Is BBC strong enough to stand tge loss is they sack him?

Solution: a new prog blatantly called "Petrol Heads" headed by a glamourous dominatrix type female in leather. The male fans at least will lap it up! OK, add a hunk for the ladies as well but keep the woman in charge!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#68 Post by thundril » March 13th, 2015, 12:27 pm

If someone assaults a colleague, dismissal is appropriate, in every industry. Never mind the money-value of the assaulter, never mind the sleb status, an employer has a duty of care; if an employee is assaulted on site, conflict resolution should be put in place; if the attacker remains unrepentant, and/or the victim continues to feel threatened, the attacker should be dismissed..
Whether criminal assault charges ensue is another matter.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Jeremy Clarkson

#69 Post by Alan H » March 13th, 2015, 1:42 pm

Apparently his contract is up for renewal anyway...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Post Reply