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Hawking's new book says creator redundant

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Ken H
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Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#1 Post by Ken H » September 3rd, 2010, 5:11 pm

In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

The book goes on sale next week.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6811GN20100902
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#2 Post by Alan H » September 3rd, 2010, 10:18 pm

Do you believe God created the Universe? Vote in the Daily Fail's poll to decide the issue...(scroll down the page a bit).
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
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Ken H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#3 Post by Ken H » September 3rd, 2010, 11:24 pm

Alan H wrote:Do you believe God created the Universe? Vote in the Daily Fail's poll to decide the issue...(scroll down the page a bit).
So far the "nays" have it, 58% to 42%.
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#4 Post by Alan H » September 3rd, 2010, 11:53 pm

Ken H wrote:
Alan H wrote:Do you believe God created the Universe? Vote in the Daily Fail's poll to decide the issue...(scroll down the page a bit).
So far the "nays" have it, 58% to 42%.
Aarrgghh! That is BAD user interface design: they have the order as Yes above No when you vote but the other way around when they show the results. I think I may have misread it earlier.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Mike
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#5 Post by Mike » September 4th, 2010, 2:32 pm

We have a devout (or should I say fanatical) Anglican where I work. Yesterday a workmate relayed the Hawking's news to her. Her response was astonishing -

"That explains why he is in a wheelchair then!"

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Ken H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#6 Post by Ken H » September 4th, 2010, 5:23 pm

Mike wrote:We have a devout (or should I say fanatical) Anglican where I work. Yesterday a workmate relayed the Hawking's news to her. Her response was astonishing -

"That explains why he is in a wheelchair then!"
It's incredible, but not surprising that some people think that way. How would she explain that he is the longest living person with ALS? I wonder if he would have made so many influential discoveries if it were not for his disease, and the time it allowed him to devote his mental powers to cosmology?

BTW, President Obama awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom last year.
(Pres. Bush gave that award to religious leader and LDS church President Gordon Hinkley and also to Tony Blair).
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Dave B
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#7 Post by Dave B » September 4th, 2010, 6:04 pm

I seem to remember that Hawking was well on course to be someone special in science before the effects of his condition became noticeable.

I wonder how much of that time he has is taken up in composing his next sentence on his machine? In the last bio I saw on him he had refused later, faster machines with better synthesis, preferring the one that has become part of his public image for so many years.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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jaywhat
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#8 Post by jaywhat » September 5th, 2010, 7:10 am

Are you saying he isn't someone special in science?

--- mind you, I would prefer him no to use the 'design' word :smile: - as some reverend in yesterday Guardian letters says 'design indicates a designer' !!

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Dave B
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#9 Post by Dave B » September 5th, 2010, 9:50 am

jaywhat wrote:Are you saying he isn't someone special in science?

--- mind you, I would prefer him no to use the 'design' word :smile: - as some reverend in yesterday Guardian letters says 'design indicates a designer' !!
No smiley after the first sentence? I was meaning that is is not necessarily his condition that made him the brain box that he is.

Yes, I listened twice to see the context he used the (loaded in this context) word "design" in. I think it was a bit of an error.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Daniel P
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#10 Post by Daniel P » September 5th, 2010, 5:19 pm

I'm wondering if Hawking's book is going to convince anybody. Any thoughts on this?

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Dave B
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#11 Post by Dave B » September 5th, 2010, 5:26 pm

I always wonder about this - there is something of "preaching to the converted" about such things.

Those that are prone to agree with Hawking's take on the subject will be prone to buy the book to boost their own views.

Is this book going into the grey area between popular academic stuff, as I think "A Short History . . ." and others have been, or is it edging into "theology" (or "atheology"?) as have Dawkins books over their evolution?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Daniel P
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#12 Post by Daniel P » September 5th, 2010, 7:28 pm

Dave B wrote: Is this book going into the grey area between popular academic stuff, as I think "A Short History . . ." and others have been, or is it edging into "theology" (or "atheology"?) as have Dawkins books over their evolution?
A kind of New Age spirituality (for want of a better word), but based on Science? That's a great idea! That's also what Carl Sagan had in mind, isn't it?

Nick
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#13 Post by Nick » September 7th, 2010, 9:04 am

I have noticed a tendency in the media for people to regard it as a revelation of truth. The churches have felt the need to justify themselves by trying to say that religion, god and faith are not the same thing at all. It's one more nail in the churches' coffin, and quite a big one at that.

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#14 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » September 7th, 2010, 9:26 am

Daniel P wrote:I'm wondering if Hawking's book is going to convince anybody. Any thoughts on this?
It might have convinced Anthony Flew, if only he'd lived long enough and in good enough health to read it.

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Stark
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#15 Post by Stark » September 7th, 2010, 6:26 pm

The creator of the universe has been made redundant? I knew the economy was in a dire state, but I didn’t know things had got that bad. :smile:

Nick
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#16 Post by Nick » September 7th, 2010, 10:41 pm

:laughter: Well once you've created the universe, you've rather worked yourself out of a job, haven't you.....?

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Alan H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#17 Post by Alan H » September 8th, 2010, 1:14 am

Nick wrote: :laughter: Well once you've created the universe, you've rather worked yourself out of a job, haven't you.....?
Wot? You think there's only one Universe out there?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#18 Post by Dave B » September 8th, 2010, 9:49 am

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote: :laughter: Well once you've created the universe, you've rather worked yourself out of a job, haven't you.....?
Wot? You think there's only one Universe out there?
Is there a different god for every one or is it that being an infinite being an infinite number of universes is no problem?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#19 Post by Alan H » September 8th, 2010, 3:00 pm

Dave B wrote:Is there a different god for every one or is it that being an infinite being an infinite number of universes is no problem?
Good question! Although an infinity of infinite gods does make the mind boggle.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Hawking's new book says creator redundant

#20 Post by Alan H » September 8th, 2010, 5:19 pm

Vaguely relevant here (couldn't see where else to put it!), my article just published on The 21st Floor:

Being a dick to Dick?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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