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Do you ever go to church?

General socialising and light-hearted discussions take place in here.
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On what occasions are you prepared to set foot in a church? (Apart from as a tourist!)

Wouldn't set foot in one
17
10%
Would attend only for a ceremony (specify below)
71
43%
Would attend for a ceremony, memorial service or a carol service.
49
30%
Would attend a normal service.
29
17%
 
Total votes: 166

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Author
RachelAnn
Posts: 32
Joined: October 5th, 2009, 2:43 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#221 Post by RachelAnn » October 6th, 2009, 1:24 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Community and acceptance. Plus, it's a haven of liberality in a very conservative area. There are other people there who share my values. It's very comforting. Also, my children (ages 9 and 13) as well as my husband benefit from being part of a community like that.

I don't "listen" to the sermons, though. I'm hearing impaired and can't. So that's not at all why I go. In fact, this is what I did during the sermon a couple weeks ago (I'm no artist, and I know it, by the way).

Image

"Unnamed Choir Member"
"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#222 Post by getreal » October 6th, 2009, 5:08 pm

Don't you feel part of your own (geographical) community?
It sounds a bit too churchy for me.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

RachelAnn
Posts: 32
Joined: October 5th, 2009, 2:43 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#223 Post by RachelAnn » October 6th, 2009, 6:15 pm

Part of my own community? In what way? Ideologically, I'm in the minority.

No institution or tradition is right for everyone, not even Unitarianism. One does what works for one.
"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl." Ralph Waldo Emerson

Maria Mac
Site Admin
Posts: 9295
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#224 Post by Maria Mac » October 6th, 2009, 8:47 pm

RachelAnn wrote:Part of my own community? In what way? Ideologically, I'm in the minority.


I presume getreal meant in a...well, community sort of way. A feeling of having a friendly bond with people because you happen to find yourself living in the same location and therefore share an interest and concern for what goes on there.

I am definitely in a minority both ethnically and ideologically where I live but I still feel part of my local community because I've spent many years here, raised two children here and for eight years was a community worker here.

My need to associate with people who are ideologically like-minded is satisfied by attending humanist or skeptic events usually some distance from where I live. Perhaps if I didn't have those, I a UU service might appeal more.
One does what works for one.
I love this way of putting it and am so stealing it!

RachelAnn
Posts: 32
Joined: October 5th, 2009, 2:43 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#225 Post by RachelAnn » October 7th, 2009, 2:31 am

Love it! It's yours!
"It is the wounded oyster that mends its shell with pearl." Ralph Waldo Emerson

lomoart
Posts: 3
Joined: October 12th, 2009, 7:17 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#226 Post by lomoart » October 12th, 2009, 8:10 am

I attend services when my mother starts yapping in my ear at 7 in the morning..just so that I can get a shut-eye in the car and in the church...I don't listen to mass though. I just go there, I don't even participate. If I have the chance to sneak out, I would.

Doc
Posts: 147
Joined: July 2nd, 2009, 7:27 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#227 Post by Doc » October 12th, 2009, 11:47 am

It is interesting how the parish church used to be synonymous with the community, even for people who weren’t religious at all. I’m 49 now, but when I was young it was just a normal thing to do, almost a civic duty... now it’s the abnormal thing to do in England. Sunday School was the normal thing to do, too.

(Incidentally, one of the things that started me off being non-religious was asking my mother when I was about 9 why my book on dinosaurs didn’t fit in with what the Sunday School teacher was saying about Adam & Eve. She took me to the vicar who explained that the Bible contained a lot of stories that weren’t supposed to be treated as being actually true. They were just there to explain complicated things to people before they understood about science. I remember being profoundly shocked... why were adults lying to me?)

Anyway, the state now does a lot of what the church once did. It was interesting to see that the first place many Polish incomers visited when they came to work in the UK was the local Catholic Church. They used it to plug into a social network, a job centre, as an advice centre and a way of accessing financial help – all the things that English churches did a hundred years ago. Of course, if the next government destroys much of the welfare state, it may be that the poor are thrown back on the ‘generosity’ of the church?

Our ideas of what constitutes a community also changed with the end of the Sunday Trading Laws which certainly had a major effect on church going. New things to do at weekends, new technology and the fragmentation of the family have broken up the traditional families’ Sunday church-going outing. I can’t see it returning...

Maria Mac
Site Admin
Posts: 9295
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#228 Post by Maria Mac » October 12th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Doc wrote:
(Incidentally, one of the things that started me off being non-religious was asking my mother when I was about 9 why my book on dinosaurs didn’t fit in with what the Sunday School teacher was saying about Adam & Eve. She took me to the vicar who explained that the Bible contained a lot of stories that weren’t supposed to be treated as being actually true. They were just there to explain complicated things to people before they understood about science. I remember being profoundly shocked... why were adults lying to me?)
Fascinating! One thing I don't understand about myself is that, as far I can remember, I wasn't bothered in any way by the clear contradiction between the ideas I was hearing from adults. The creation account in Genesis on the one hand and 'millions of years before humankind existed dinosaurs roamed the earth' on the other (and sometimes these conflicting stories came from the same mouth - my teacher's. I don't remember being told specifically that the Bible was just stories but I seemed to know it, yet I also "knew" that all the stuff about the trinity and about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins was true, even though it was so incomprehensible to me that I didn't feel able to ask a question it. I just assumed that understanding would come as I got older. What happened instead was that I realised it was a load of poppycock.
It was interesting to see that the first place many Polish incomers visited when they came to work in the UK was the local Catholic Church. They used it to plug into a social network, a job centre, as an advice centre and a way of accessing financial help – all the things that English churches did a hundred years ago. Of course, if the next government destroys much of the welfare state, it may be that the poor are thrown back on the ‘generosity’ of the church?
I have a fantasy that one day any humanist that migrates to the UK, or any humanist that just moves from part of the UK to another - will able to find at their local humanist centre, a place to find friendship and support. One day, maybe...

Maria Mac
Site Admin
Posts: 9295
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#229 Post by Maria Mac » October 12th, 2009, 2:00 pm

Hi lomoart and welcome to the forum.

I'd assume from the links that you are a cosmetic dentist in San Antonio, in which case I'd suggest moving out of your mother's house so she can't tell you what to do. Or is it your house and you've kindly given your mother house room?

If the site isn't advertising your own business, why are you carrying the links in all of your posts? In any event, I ask you to please stop linking to these sites because I don't like the precedent that allowing you to do so would set.


ETA: As lomoart has not returned in 24 hours I have removed the links from his posts.

camsquirrel
Posts: 43
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re:

#230 Post by camsquirrel » November 11th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Maria wrote: Goldie, In the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, having the ceremony of your dreams is easier than anywhere else. Humanist weddings have legal status here in Scotland but Alan and I still chose to travel to the US for our wedding last year.
So you're trying to say the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave ISN'T Scotland???

camsquirrel
Posts: 43
Joined: November 9th, 2009, 11:03 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#231 Post by camsquirrel » November 11th, 2009, 9:33 pm

I would not do the carol service thing, in fact there were almost familial ructions a few years ago when I refused to go to a carol service one of my nieces or nephews was singing in on the basis that it would "mean a lot to them". In the end I didn't go but did sit down with them and explain my reasons to them. They understood.

I sometimes find myself in a church for a wedding or funeral or indeed baptism, and did even consent to be a Godfather, although I insisted on being a Godlessfather; but I first made my sister go to the minister and find out whether I would be expected to make any vows or anything. I fairly recently discovered the word "Guidefather", which I find a marvellous alternative.

When I come to be remarried next year or the year after, we intend to create our own ceremony and vows and hold it in a park, with either a humanist celebrant there to take care of the legal formalities or a quick visit to the local registry office for those. I would not be able to subject myself to a religious wedding and would not expect the church concerned to put me through one in the knowledge that the religious vows would mean nothing to me and would in effect be dishonest and hypocritical, and as such disrespecting of their beliefs as well as my own.

Doc
Posts: 147
Joined: July 2nd, 2009, 7:27 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#232 Post by Doc » November 12th, 2009, 4:52 pm

A Christian town councillor from Bideford in Devon has complained to the local paper that two other councillors didn’t attend the Remembrance church service on Sunday - although they did attend the ceremony at the War Memorial. These two councillors are non-believers, but, apparently, not going to a church service shows a lack of respect and is a bad example for children.

Local Humanists are, of course, responding to this & expect the letters pages of the local paper to rapidly fill with comments. This may also become a bigger story...

Manuel
Posts: 184
Joined: October 29th, 2009, 8:59 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#233 Post by Manuel » November 12th, 2009, 6:03 pm

Doc wrote:A Christian town councillor from Bideford in Devon has complained to the local paper that two other councillors didn’t attend the Remembrance church service on Sunday - although they did attend the ceremony at the War Memorial. These two councillors are non-believers, but, apparently, not going to a church service shows a lack of respect and is a bad example for children.
Well I suppose he has the right to complain 'to the local newspaper', as anybody does. I agree, it is absurd though. "How dare they not join in with the ceremonies of my religion! Who on earth do they think they are thinking for themselves in this manner." Not enough that the heretics will be facing eternal damnation after they die, they have to spend their living years mouthing silently to hymns and pretending to prey so as not to offend anyone or influence children. Sounds like a very self-centred and righteous stance. Hopefully the readers of Bridport have enough savvy to see it for what it is.

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#234 Post by Fia » November 12th, 2009, 9:44 pm

and is a bad example for children.
Oh dear. I'm clearly a bad example to children.
I would contend that the xtian councillor is setting a bad example by expecting children to be indoctrinated into his life stance. They are children. They know even less than us, and we don't know much - some exceptions on this forum possibly :D
They need to be given the space to mature to make up their own minds, without warping it with mumbo jumbo. It's an emotionally immature argument to appeal to the heartstrings when you haven't got anything useful to say.

May the Bideford local paper go global under a tsunami of humanist indignation :)

gunnerstahl
Posts: 7
Joined: November 13th, 2009, 11:41 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#235 Post by gunnerstahl » November 13th, 2009, 11:46 am

I've attended church a few times do to friends asking. I find it's generally a good experience; there's always a good lesson to be learned generally.

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#236 Post by Marian » November 13th, 2009, 3:06 pm

yeah sure, I'll go to church...when hell freezes over. Since I don't believe in hell either, I guess I won't be going!
Been there, done that, gave back the t-shirt.
Transformative fire...

Compassionist
Posts: 3511
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#237 Post by Compassionist » November 13th, 2009, 6:41 pm

I went to a wedding in a church recently. It's the first wedding I have ever been invited to in Scotland even though I have lived here since 1993.

Maria Mac
Site Admin
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#238 Post by Maria Mac » November 13th, 2009, 10:11 pm

gunnerstahl wrote:I've attended church a few times do to friends asking. I find it's generally a good experience; there's always a good lesson to be learned generally.
Interesting. Can you give an example of a good lesson that you've learned from attending church?

gunnerstahl
Posts: 7
Joined: November 13th, 2009, 11:41 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#239 Post by gunnerstahl » November 13th, 2009, 10:48 pm

Maria wrote:
gunnerstahl wrote:I've attended church a few times do to friends asking. I find it's generally a good experience; there's always a good lesson to be learned generally.
Interesting. Can you give an example of a good lesson that you've learned from attending church?
I don't remember specifically (it was a long time ago), but for instance just experiencing an environment where people express care for each other is educational. That and "morals" to stories from the bible type thing.

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getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#240 Post by getreal » November 13th, 2009, 11:42 pm

How could you tell that the people cared for each other? In what way did they express this?

Didn't you get told stories with a moral at home, or in school, which weren't based on religion?

At school I remember 2 in particular. The story of the hare and the tortoise and a story about prisoners of war being sent chocolate by the red cross at christmas. Everyone shared except one selfish bastard chap. he squirreled his away to save for himself and it wen't mouldy before he could eat it.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

gunnerstahl
Posts: 7
Joined: November 13th, 2009, 11:41 am

Re: Do you ever go to church?

#241 Post by gunnerstahl » November 14th, 2009, 8:05 am

getreal wrote:How could you tell that the people cared for each other? In what way did they express this?

Didn't you get told stories with a moral at home, or in school, which weren't based on religion?

At school I remember 2 in particular. The story of the hare and the tortoise and a story about prisoners of war being sent chocolate by the red cross at christmas. Everyone shared except one selfish bastard chap. he squirreled his away to save for himself and it wen't mouldy before he could eat it.
If they cared for each other is another question all together, but they expressed care for each other just by hugging each other and smiling. It was one of those meet your neighbor excercises. I did get told stories with morals at school and at home, but this questions about church, and there yes too.

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