Do you ever go to church?

[Jaybird]

Latest post of the previous page:

I would go to more or less anything except a normal service. Church is boring and what the clergy say can be very objectionable but sometimes I am prepared to overlook all of that to be with the people I want to be with at an important time in their lives.

I went to a memorial service recently after a young colleague was killed in a dreadful accident and the minister totally pissed me off with some of the crap he said about God being merciful etc. But being with all the friends and the family of the deceased meant a great deal to me and helped me with my grieving. The fact that the deceased was a believer meant the setting was appropriate even though it wasn't to my taste.

[whitecraw]

I’ll be toddling along to the Kirk on the 21st. It’s having a special service to mark the start of the local arts festival and I’ve been asked to write a poem and read it. Should be a hoot! It’s to be on the theme of ‘abundance’, the service being put together loosely around the story of the wedding at Câna. I wrote the poem last night. Here it is. What do you think?

an auld câna couple mind back

that wis juist the stairt

• raw an carnwath-lik we wir in thae faurdays
  blate eneuch thoot aa thon business wi the wine
  thankfu ti mary’s laddie for onstappin the joy

syne it’s bin a meeracle

• titchin the shore o the ither in oor sleep
  waukin waarm aneath oor ain ruif-tree
  shawin turmits in oor fields

e’en the thraits brocht blissin

• bruidin daith intensified oor life
  care tocht us the nurtur o a failin wean
  puirtith peyed us back wi’ts ain puir gowd

oor mairiage wisna oot the ordnar

• we focht an gluncht lik oor neebors daen
  an seikent o it aa betimes lik maist fowk…
  the haill sair fecht

but ay

• in ilka cup o cauld hairsh watter
  we pree’d a glisk o câna wine

[Alan H]

Subtitles?

[whitecraw]

No, but I believe they'll have someone signing for the deaf.

[Lifelinking]

[lewist]

Thon's a braw bit verse, Whitecraw! But wha will unnerstaun it?

[tehabwa]

Never been to a normal church service of any kind.

I've set foot in churches for a couple of weddings, and have been to one funeral.

When I was four, I went to a Unitarian Sunday school for a few weeks. I remember I was going to be a Sugar Plum Fairy, but didn't go long enough to do more than reherse.

If I didn't hate flying, and had money, I'd consider going to Europe. I'd probably go into churches for the historical interest.

(Anything over 200 years old is "ancient" to this Californian's eyes.)

Oh! When I was in Philly I went into a church where a lot of the men responsible for the existence of the U.S. had gone. So, yeah, for the historical interest thing.

[Firebrand]

Yes, Europe is definitely worth visiting for the cathedrals, Tehabwa. And the castles too, of course.

I've been known to attend normal services to keep other family members company and I've no objection to doing so. Actually, I quite enjoy them.

[Val]

I surprised myself whilst visiting a friend in Newcastle on the 21st Oct., by agreeing to go to church with her. It was Trafalgar Day (202 anniversary) and I wanted to see how much input the local services and cadets put in. Sure enough some of them were there in church, tooled up with swords and flags showing battle honours. They read the bible and things, marching militarily up the aisle and down again. I pondered on to which god the other side had been praying . I had not the heart to challenge any of the young fresh faced youths at the tea party afterwards, and besides as I was in a wheelchair I was invisible to them anyway, although the vicar noticed me.

I then spent the next several days being wheeled around the local abbeys and churches by my friend who was an archeologist and therefore knowledgeable about the history.

I am so please that at the end of all that we went down to York for the York Lesbian Arts Festival - WONDERFUL

[Aphra]

I sometimes visit old churches to look at the architecture.

I've conducted Humanist funerals in churches several times, with their permission. On one occasion, the vicar played the CDs for me.

[Maria Mac]

Well back in July I posted in this thread saying I would "probably" draw the line at infant baptism. I am now invited to the baptism of my nephew in a Greek Orthodox church and wild horses wouldn't drag me to it even if it were to take place five minutes from my home instead of in Athens.

My only dilemma is what I am going to say in the email to my brother. I keep putting it off.

[Aphra]

I might say I'm very sorry, but I'd feel a fraud if I attended as I don't share his religious beliefs, but I'd hope to be welcome at the following party. I suppose it depends on the sort of relationship you have with him.

On the other hand, you could go and just not take an active role. They're not expecting you to be a "godparent", are they? I had neighbours years ago, a not-very-bright young couple, who asked me to be their baby's godmother. I explained why not, and she said, "Oh that doesn't matter - it's only for a day."

My sister got married (for the second time) in church. I didn't go to her first wedding, when she was a pregnant teenager and I refused to attend on the grounds that I didn't approve of the pressure put on her and my former B-in-law to get wed. Besides, I was an impecunious student at the other end of the country, and no one offered to pay my fare! I attended her second wedding, in her village church, and read Jenny Joseph's poem, "Warning", on her behalf. I didn't sing any hymns, or say any prayers, but she knew I wouldn't. She and her husband are very pally with the lady vicar and she wanted to have the sort of wedding she didn't get the first time around.

A retired minister who conducted my parents' funerals was observed kissing me in an avuncular manner in the vestry at our local crematorium, when a member of staff said, in mock horror, "Oh! You kissed an atheist!" My friend replied, "That's all right; it's not catching," which is my attitude to religion, and those occasions when I've been to church out of respect for the people involved, such as a neighbour's funeral. So far, each experience has confirmed my view that we can do these things so much better!

Have just noticed wot I rote in my last post - must've had a little drinkie before I hit send.

[Alan C.]

I attended the Christening of my youngest brothers son, it would have been around 1979, it must have been the first (and last) one I have been present at, I just couldn't believe what the Vicar was spouting, and asking everybody to agree with, a couple of years later my youngest sister (peace be upon her)
asked Mary and myself to be godparents to her boy, I just explained to her that it was out of the question, and explained why, it was no big deal to her, she just got somebody else.
Neither my brother or my sister were in any way religious, it's just that 30 odd years ago it was just what you did (Christening)

Your dilemma Maria, might be completely different, I don't know how much importance your family attaches to their religion, I personally would never take part in another Christening/Baptism, (I don't suppose I would be asked anyway) But it wouldn't cause me any problems with family, or friends, come to that.

I hope you can think of a solution that doesn't put you at odds with your family.

[Maria Mac]

I might say I'm very sorry, but I'd feel a fraud if I attended as I don't share his religious beliefs, but I'd hope to be welcome at the following party. I suppose it depends on the sort of relationship you have with him.

A major difference between my brother and myself is not our religious beliefs because neither of us has any but that I wouldn't under any circumstances agree to have one of my children baptised as an infant and he thinks it's perfectly fine. If we were in the same country I don't think he'd have any problem with my skipping the church bit and going to the party but, as we would be staying as guests in his home and relying on his family's hospitality, I think that could cause a bit of friction with the in-laws.

I'll write to him tomorrow trying not to sound ungracious.

Have just noticed wot I rote in my last post - must've had a little drinkie before I hit send.

LOL! I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out. I've now corrected it.

[Aphra]

Sounds like a typical case of someone going through the motions because it's "expected", without actually thinking about the significance of what he's doing. Lucky baby will be oblivious, so won't share your embarrassment.

It's like the people who say they want a "non-religious" funeral, then ask for a hymn, like Jerusalem, or that one they sing at football matches. Several have told me, "It's not really religious, is it?" One said she wanted "All things bright and beautiful" because she "liked the tune". "Do you think "the Lord God made them all?" I enquired. "When you put it like that," said she, and dropped the idea.

How many people appreciate that baptism means "a Christian sacrament signifying spiritual cleansing and rebirth" or consider whether a baby needs "cleansing"? Very few.

Thanks for correcting my errors.

[wizzy]

I am so please that at the end of all that we went down to York for the York Lesbian Arts Festival - WONDERFUL

I was there (my fifth), and it was. Sorry, off topic, but I have answered the question earlier!

[Don Alhambra]

I have been and plan again to go to church for various ceremonies. My grandather's memorial service was in Lanercost Priory in Cumbria (we have a family plot out the back), and was a very Humanist ceremony. Beautifully done.

Also I recently went to a proper old CofE wedding for a couple of friends of mine. I didn't sing any of the hymns, though honestly I don't mind singing hymns... I didn't sing them because I didn't know them, not being what you'd call an avid church-goer. I didn't say 'amen' or say any of the responses like 'God be with you' or any of that bollocks. The only thing I responded to (the only thing which got any response above a murmur, humorously) was 'Will you, the friends and family of X and Y, promise to support them and protect them in their life together?' And we all said: 'YES!'

That, of course, was the reason we were at the wedding. Not for God, but for them, whether or not they do believe in what I consider to be complete rubbish. I'd go again in a heartbeat.

Having thought about what Maria said earlier though, I might make an exception for christenings now...

[Galgacus]

Depends which side of the border I'm on...

South of the border I never set foot in a church. Well, occasionally for concerts but never for any services.

North of the border I'll often go to church. First there's not upsetting the family. I was brought up in a very religious family, and they all still attend church so I'll get dragged along with them. Second though, is catching up with friends, many of whom are also still church-goers. With the dispersed rural community there it's often the only chance I have to meet up with old friends. Having said that, being in the in the church is not being 'in church' - They all know that I'm not a theist so I'll be sat at the back letting them get on with it until the service is over, and then I'll join in

[xman]

One xmas eve I went to the Cathedral Notre Dame in Montréal for the show. It was awesome. As we entered the church the organist was playing the opening strains of Bach's Cantata and Fugue in D minor. It was my jewish friend, Joel's idea. The next day we went to his place for xmas day dinner and had Welsh Rarebit followed by a kosher turkey which he bought at an orthodox shop that very day.

X

PS I received the host that day for the only time in my life just to experience it. Didn't seem fleshy at all.

[mannchildr]

I have some wonderful family members who are still affiliated with organized religion. I will attend anything that makes my family happy. I will not put a penny in any collection plate, sing, pray or participate in any way. I will be there in body only and enjoy being in the presence of my loved ones. They understand where I'm coming from and have no problem with my position.

[Alan C.]

Welcome aboard mannchildr, would you care to go to "introductions" and tell us a bit about yourself?