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How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Gnostic Bishop
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How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#1 Post by Gnostic Bishop » November 17th, 2017, 9:34 pm

How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.

If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.

I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

Regards
DL

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animist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#2 Post by animist » November 18th, 2017, 2:54 pm

could I ask you a question - are you a member of a group known as Gnostic Christians?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#3 Post by Gnostic Bishop » November 18th, 2017, 4:01 pm

animist wrote:could I ask you a question - are you a member of a group known as Gnostic Christians?
As indicated in the O.P., indeed.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#4 Post by VINDICATOR » November 20th, 2017, 12:59 pm

Hi, Gnostic Bishop,
Since you realize that God Is cruel and immoral, why do you still want to worship God? The man-made Bill of Rights prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual punishment" and many nations have abolished the death sentence for even the worst crimes, but God will torture you in the eternal fires of Hell just because you don't worship him! The great scientist Pascal worshipped God even though he didn't believe in him because he was so afraid of going to Hell! Look up "Pascal's Wager" on the net. Is that your problem?

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#5 Post by Gnostic Bishop » November 20th, 2017, 8:33 pm

VINDICATOR wrote:Hi, Gnostic Bishop,
Since you realize that God Is cruel and immoral, why do you still want to worship God? The man-made Bill of Rights prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual punishment" and many nations have abolished the death sentence for even the worst crimes, but God will torture you in the eternal fires of Hell just because you don't worship him! The great scientist Pascal worshipped God even though he didn't believe in him because he was so afraid of going to Hell! Look up "Pascal's Wager" on the net. Is that your problem?
What makes you think I want to worship anything, especially of the supernatural kind?

There is no supernatural belief in my ideology.

Regards
DL

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animist
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#6 Post by animist » November 21st, 2017, 9:50 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
VINDICATOR wrote:Hi, Gnostic Bishop,
Since you realize that God Is cruel and immoral, why do you still want to worship God? The man-made Bill of Rights prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual punishment" and many nations have abolished the death sentence for even the worst crimes, but God will torture you in the eternal fires of Hell just because you don't worship him! The great scientist Pascal worshipped God even though he didn't believe in him because he was so afraid of going to Hell! Look up "Pascal's Wager" on the net. Is that your problem?
What makes you think I want to worship anything, especially of the supernatural kind?

There is no supernatural belief in my ideology.

Regards
DL
I think that most of us here do not really understand your ideas, so maybe you could reiterate them concisely?

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#7 Post by Gnostic Bishop » November 21st, 2017, 2:13 pm

animist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
VINDICATOR wrote:Hi, Gnostic Bishop,
Since you realize that God Is cruel and immoral, why do you still want to worship God? The man-made Bill of Rights prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual punishment" and many nations have abolished the death sentence for even the worst crimes, but God will torture you in the eternal fires of Hell just because you don't worship him! The great scientist Pascal worshipped God even though he didn't believe in him because he was so afraid of going to Hell! Look up "Pascal's Wager" on the net. Is that your problem?
What makes you think I want to worship anything, especially of the supernatural kind?

There is no supernatural belief in my ideology.

Regards
DL
I think that most of us here do not really understand your ideas, so maybe you could reiterate them concisely?
Here is a brief summary.

I am a Gnostic Christian, Our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose the cash they fleece from their sheeple. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html


Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Esoteric and allegorical reading is how the bible should be read. This method and mind set is how you get the true meaning of the myths you read.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#8 Post by TheJackel » July 5th, 2019, 7:41 am

My favorites are the hypocrites such as the religious pro-lifers who then praise a lord for committing world abortion because he was sorry for having made them. The problem with cults and religions is that they will profess the immorality of all others and then assert it isn't immoral when they do it, or when they support it. It is like watching on TV the Irony of Israel committing genocide and becoming a fascist state while professing their victimhood from thereof. Fun stuff..

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#9 Post by Compassionist » July 5th, 2019, 6:44 pm

Please see http://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

“Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. This is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949.

Most people are brainwashed to fear God from early childhood. Most of them never transcend this fear and ask questions about the veracity and ethics of God's conduct. Apostasy and blasphemy laws are rife on Earth and are used to silence and even kill those who dare to ask questions and challenge the veracity and ethics of various self-contradictory and mutually contradictory religious books and deities.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#10 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 7th, 2019, 4:29 pm

TheJackel wrote:My favorites are the hypocrites such as the religious pro-lifers who then praise a lord for committing world abortion because he was sorry for having made them. The problem with cults and religions is that they will profess the immorality of all others and then assert it isn't immoral when they do it, or when they support it. It is like watching on TV the Irony of Israel committing genocide and becoming a fascist state while professing their victimhood from thereof. Fun stuff..
All the mainstream religions are fascist at heart.

You might have forgotten that the Vatican was Hitler's bank.

Thanks for adding to Jewish victimhood.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#11 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 7th, 2019, 4:34 pm

Compassionist wrote:Please see http://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

“Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. This is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949.

Most people are brainwashed to fear God from early childhood. Most of them never transcend this fear and ask questions about the veracity and ethics of God's conduct. Apostasy and blasphemy laws are rife on Earth and are used to silence and even kill those who dare to ask questions and challenge the veracity and ethics of various self-contradictory and mutually contradictory religious books and deities.
Thanks for this. We are on the same page.

" and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949."

It seems that although true to a point, Schweitzer did not put the little bit of evil we do to each other when we compete, as just a small evil within the much larger good.

We must do some harm/evil to each other or we would go extinct.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#12 Post by Compassionist » July 8th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:Please see http://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

“Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. This is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949.

Most people are brainwashed to fear God from early childhood. Most of them never transcend this fear and ask questions about the veracity and ethics of God's conduct. Apostasy and blasphemy laws are rife on Earth and are used to silence and even kill those who dare to ask questions and challenge the veracity and ethics of various self-contradictory and mutually contradictory religious books and deities.
Thanks for this. We are on the same page.

" and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949."

It seems that although true to a point, Schweitzer did not put the little bit of evil we do to each other when we compete, as just a small evil within the much larger good.

We must do some harm/evil to each other or we would go extinct.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL
Are you talking about the harm caused by humans competing for jobs, customers, reproductive partners, resources, etc.? My motto is "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. Love, we can. Luminous, we can be." I am a Pacifist Vegan Humanist. I realise that only between 0.1% to 1% of humans are vegans - we don't even have accurate data. Ideally, we should all respect the rights of all sentient organisms equally but we are imperfect and we live in an imperfect reality full of horror, suffering and injustice. In a perfect world there is no suffering or death and our reality is far from perfect. We evolved in a chaotic world full of suffering and unfairness.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#13 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 8th, 2019, 1:55 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:Please see http://www.evilbible.com and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

“Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. This is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949.

Most people are brainwashed to fear God from early childhood. Most of them never transcend this fear and ask questions about the veracity and ethics of God's conduct. Apostasy and blasphemy laws are rife on Earth and are used to silence and even kill those who dare to ask questions and challenge the veracity and ethics of various self-contradictory and mutually contradictory religious books and deities.
Thanks for this. We are on the same page.

" and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil.” – Albert Schweitzer, “Civilization and Ethics”, 1949."

It seems that although true to a point, Schweitzer did not put the little bit of evil we do to each other when we compete, as just a small evil within the much larger good.

We must do some harm/evil to each other or we would go extinct.

Do you see that?

Regards
DL
Are you talking about the harm caused by humans competing for jobs, customers, reproductive partners, resources, etc.? My motto is "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. Love, we can. Luminous, we can be." I am a Pacifist Vegan Humanist. I realise that only between 0.1% to 1% of humans are vegans - we don't even have accurate data. Ideally, we should all respect the rights of all sentient organisms equally but we are imperfect and we live in an imperfect reality full of horror, suffering and injustice. In a perfect world there is no suffering or death and our reality is far from perfect. We evolved in a chaotic world full of suffering and unfairness.
You are not looking at the big picture and see evil where there is good.

Almost every marker for evil is at the lowest % that we have ever enjoyed, yet you see so much evil.
Look again for the first time, expeciaslly the stats at the end of the second link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ADgh3yCSdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLulcfyqrc0

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#14 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 8th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Compassionist wrote: Are you talking about the harm caused by humans competing for jobs, customers, reproductive partners, resources, etc.? My motto is "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. Love, we can. Luminous, we can be." I am a Pacifist Vegan Humanist. I realise that only between 0.1% to 1% of humans are vegans - we don't even have accurate data. Ideally, we should all respect the rights of all sentient organisms equally but we are imperfect and we live in an imperfect reality full of horror, suffering and injustice. In a perfect world there is no suffering or death and our reality is far from perfect. We evolved in a chaotic world full of suffering and unfairness.
All competitions for any resource.

You say harm none, yet you will the next time you have to compete. You cannot help it and that small evil is just a part of the greater good of us not going extinct.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#15 Post by Compassionist » July 8th, 2019, 6:24 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote: Are you talking about the harm caused by humans competing for jobs, customers, reproductive partners, resources, etc.? My motto is "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. Love, we can. Luminous, we can be." I am a Pacifist Vegan Humanist. I realise that only between 0.1% to 1% of humans are vegans - we don't even have accurate data. Ideally, we should all respect the rights of all sentient organisms equally but we are imperfect and we live in an imperfect reality full of horror, suffering and injustice. In a perfect world there is no suffering or death and our reality is far from perfect. We evolved in a chaotic world full of suffering and unfairness.
All competitions for any resource.

You say harm none, yet you will the next time you have to compete. You cannot help it and that small evil is just a part of the greater good of us not going extinct.

Regards
DL
There is a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. When I inhale, virus and bacteria go into my lungs and are killed by my immune system. I mean them no harm but my immune system kills them anyway. When I exhale, I breathe out carbon dioxide which contributes to the global climate change which is causing the extinction of many species and bringing suffering and death to many humans. It is impossible to refrain from doing unintentional harm in a world of such complexity and chaos. That's why I wish I could add omniscience and omnipotence to my omnibenevolence. Then, I would be able to go back in time and prevent all harm, all suffering, all death and all unfairness and make everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and the owner of an infinite number of universes each so that there will be no competition ever. All gods are either imaginary or evil because they failed to prevent all harm, suffering and death despite allegedly being omniscient and omnipotent.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#16 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 8th, 2019, 6:42 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote: Are you talking about the harm caused by humans competing for jobs, customers, reproductive partners, resources, etc.? My motto is "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none. Love, we can. Luminous, we can be." I am a Pacifist Vegan Humanist. I realise that only between 0.1% to 1% of humans are vegans - we don't even have accurate data. Ideally, we should all respect the rights of all sentient organisms equally but we are imperfect and we live in an imperfect reality full of horror, suffering and injustice. In a perfect world there is no suffering or death and our reality is far from perfect. We evolved in a chaotic world full of suffering and unfairness.
All competitions for any resource.

You say harm none, yet you will the next time you have to compete. You cannot help it and that small evil is just a part of the greater good of us not going extinct.

Regards
DL
There is a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. When I inhale, virus and bacteria go into my lungs and are killed by my immune system. I mean them no harm but my immune system kills them anyway. When I exhale, I breathe out carbon dioxide which contributes to the global climate change which is causing the extinction of many species and bringing suffering and death to many humans. It is impossible to refrain from doing unintentional harm in a world of such complexity and chaos. That's why I wish I could add omniscience and omnipotence to my omnibenevolence. Then, I would be able to go back in time and prevent all harm, all suffering, all death and all unfairness and make everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and the owner of an infinite number of universes each so that there will be no competition ever. All gods are either imaginary or evil because they failed to prevent all harm, suffering and death despite allegedly being omniscient and omnipotent.
I was talking of human to human harm.

Strange that you would end our evolution and hierarchical natures by ending the small bit of evil within our greater good of maintaining our species.

"It is impossible to refrain from doing unintentional harm in a world of such complexity and chaos."

?? I see a lot of order and predictability while you see chaos. Strange.

Your first is correct and you know that the next time you have to compete for resources, you will knowingly create a victim who will see your win as harming him. You will not care and likely should not care enough to keep you from competing.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#17 Post by Compassionist » July 8th, 2019, 9:26 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
All competitions for any resource.

You say harm none, yet you will the next time you have to compete. You cannot help it and that small evil is just a part of the greater good of us not going extinct.

Regards
DL
There is a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. When I inhale, virus and bacteria go into my lungs and are killed by my immune system. I mean them no harm but my immune system kills them anyway. When I exhale, I breathe out carbon dioxide which contributes to the global climate change which is causing the extinction of many species and bringing suffering and death to many humans. It is impossible to refrain from doing unintentional harm in a world of such complexity and chaos. That's why I wish I could add omniscience and omnipotence to my omnibenevolence. Then, I would be able to go back in time and prevent all harm, all suffering, all death and all unfairness and make everyone equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and the owner of an infinite number of universes each so that there will be no competition ever. All gods are either imaginary or evil because they failed to prevent all harm, suffering and death despite allegedly being omniscient and omnipotent.
I was talking of human to human harm.

Strange that you would end our evolution and hierarchical natures by ending the small bit of evil within our greater good of maintaining our species.

"It is impossible to refrain from doing unintentional harm in a world of such complexity and chaos."

?? I see a lot of order and predictability while you see chaos. Strange.

Your first is correct and you know that the next time you have to compete for resources, you will knowingly create a victim who will see your win as harming him. You will not care and likely should not care enough to keep you from competing.

Regards
DL
You are thinking of only our species. I am thinking of all species. 99.99% of all life to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct because life is so harsh and unfair. I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent. We live in a reality where there is a mixture of order and chaos but ultimately it is brutal. Here, the rule is: might is right, adapt or die. Ultimately, everyone fails to adapt and consequently dies. Reality does not care about the suffering and death of sentient organisms. If it did, there would be no suffering and death.

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#18 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 8th, 2019, 9:33 pm

Compassionist wrote:[
You are thinking of only our species. I am thinking of all species. 99.99% of all life to ever evolve on Earth are already extinct because life is so harsh and unfair. I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent.
:hilarity:

You are not thinking of all species because then you would see that as one species dies or goes extinct from lack of a decent eco system, some other species of life will learn to use the new eco system and rep[lace the extinct one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4N ... re=related

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#19 Post by Gnostic Bishop » July 8th, 2019, 9:57 pm

Compassionist wrote:[ I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent.
Do you want the fittest to rule the world or the less fit?

The closest you will find in the animal world that has mitigated their penalty for not being the fittest will be the King Penguin. Have you seen the way they move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XygDTA7kQ

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

#20 Post by Compassionist » July 9th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:[ I want to make life fair for all and the only way to do that is to make every being equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent.
Do you want the fittest to rule the world or the less fit?

The closest you will find in the animal world that has mitigated their penalty for not being the fittest will be the King Penguin. Have you seen the way they move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XygDTA7kQ

Regards
DL
I don't want anyone to rule the world. I want an egalitarian world free from all suffering, harm and death. Evolution is a blind and indifferent process which does not care about the suffering of the organisms. I hate this evil world full of suffering, harm and death. In this world, the evil ones prosper and the innocent ones perish. Think of all the predators which hunt and kill the preys. Think of all the genocides, murders, tortures, assaults, rapes, robberies, corruptions, frauds, thefts, accidents, diseases, etc. I don't know how anyone can be happy in a world like this. This reality is horrific. It is full of suffering and injustice. No wonder 84% of humans indulge in religious delusions of going to heaven or attaining Nirvana. Life is unbearable.

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