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Eternal torment in Hell

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Kismet
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#61 Post by Kismet » July 15th, 2012, 8:39 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Dave B wrote:Kismet, its it possibly getting boring because your mindset is so narrow and we are not talking about those things you love and which put you at the centre of attention?
No, rather it has been boring for aeons because this forum's mindset is so narrow (narrowed down to metaphysical naturalism) and it is because you ONLY talk about those things you love and put your own HUMANITY (i.e, yourself) in the center.,,,, that things are BORING BORING and,, once more, BORING! :wink:

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Alan C.
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#62 Post by Alan C. » July 15th, 2012, 9:17 pm

that things are BORING BORING and,, once more, BORING! :wink:
Are you out of junior school yet?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Kismet
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#63 Post by Kismet » July 15th, 2012, 10:00 pm

Alan C. wrote:
that things are BORING BORING and,, once more, BORING! :wink:
Are you out of junior school yet?
Are you intelligent?

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Alan H
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#64 Post by Alan H » July 15th, 2012, 11:56 pm

Kismet wrote:
Dave B wrote:Kismet, its it possibly getting boring because your mindset is so narrow and we are not talking about those things you love and which put you at the centre of attention?
No, rather it has been boring for aeons because this forum's mindset is so narrow (narrowed down to metaphysical naturalism) and it is because you ONLY talk about those things you love and put your own HUMANITY (i.e, yourself) in the center.,,,, that things are BORING BORING and,, once more, BORING! :wink:
Thank you for giving us your opinion.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Kismet
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#65 Post by Kismet » July 16th, 2012, 4:25 am

Alan H wrote:Thank you for giving us your opinion.
Oh....

I didn't have to....

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Altfish
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#66 Post by Altfish » July 16th, 2012, 8:27 am

Kismet wrote:
Alan H wrote:Thank you for giving us your opinion.
Oh....

I didn't have to....
No, you didn't, but there's not a great deal of point being on a Forum if you don't. :dance:

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Tetenterre
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#67 Post by Tetenterre » July 16th, 2012, 11:36 am

Kismet wrote:
Tetenterre wrote:That is hardly an understanding of quantum physics; it is a layman's interpretation of an apparent consequence of it; not the same thing at all.
Precisely.
But you wrote what you did in response to Alan's "I need to know what you understand by quantum physics. Can you provide the meaning you ascribe to it?" Any imminent danger that you will embrace the use of the sequitur? :wink:
Kismet wrote:Boy is this forum getting boring.
I beg to differ. You may be bored, but that does not make the forum inherently boring. Some of us find it very interesting. But, if it's not to your liking, no-one is forcing you... :dance:
Kismet wrote:it is receding back...
Is there another way to recede?
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

stevenw888
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#68 Post by stevenw888 » July 16th, 2012, 4:18 pm

I searched for "quantum physics" on google and came up with this
Attachments
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"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

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RedCelt
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#69 Post by RedCelt » July 16th, 2012, 4:25 pm

stevenw888 wrote:I searched for "quantum physics" on google and came up with this
Replace "Emma Watson" with "Susan Boyle" and it would be just as true... and a lot less awesome.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

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stevenw888
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#70 Post by stevenw888 » July 16th, 2012, 4:50 pm

The difference between Emma Watson and Susan Boyle is - I've heard of Susan Boyle.
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

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RedCelt
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#71 Post by RedCelt » July 16th, 2012, 4:59 pm

stevenw888 wrote:The difference between Emma Watson and Susan Boyle is - I've heard of Susan Boyle.
I actually had to Google her. It's the actress who plays Hermione in the Harry Potter movies. None of which, I've seen. I'm guessing that the person who made that image is a lot younger than me.
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and celt
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed

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stevenw888
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#72 Post by stevenw888 » July 16th, 2012, 5:09 pm

and a lot younger than me as well! Harry Potter - that stuff's for kids!
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

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animist
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#73 Post by animist » July 16th, 2012, 6:49 pm

RedCelt wrote:
stevenw888 wrote:I searched for "quantum physics" on google and came up with this
Replace "Emma Watson" with "Susan Boyle" and it would be just as true... and a lot less awesome.
as in "aweful" (have you ever wondered why it is "awesome" for lots of awe, not only some?)

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Dave B
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#74 Post by Dave B » July 16th, 2012, 7:52 pm

stevenw888 wrote:and a lot younger than me as well! Harry Potter - that stuff's for kids!
Maybe, but Emma certainly isn't! Just too much for an old fogey like me - but might be worth the risk of Eternal torment in Hell to go that way!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Compassionist
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#75 Post by Compassionist » July 18th, 2012, 3:14 pm

Alan C. wrote:
Compo
The Bible says that people die because Adam and Eve sinned and all humans are descendants of Adam and Eve.
Neither the Archbish of Canterbury nor the Pope believe that, why would anybody else?
In that case, why do other living things (e.g. plants, animals, fish, birds, bacteria, virus, etc.) die when they are not descendants of Adam and Eve?
We all (animals and plants) Share DNA, we are all predisposed to die and make way for the next generation.
People are supposed to be saved from their sins by accepting Jesus as their personal saviour. If Jesus truly saves people from sin, why do these allegedly saved people still die given that death is claimed to be a consequence of sin?
Where did you get that idea from? Everything dies, sin or no sin.
Why did God sacrifice animal to clothe Adam and Eve instead of using fabrics made by spinning cotton? Was it not unjust and cruel of God to kill the animals in order to use their skin to clothe Adam and Eve?
Have I missed something in the bible?
Why did God demand the deaths of innocent animals as sacrifice for sin? Isn't such demand cruel, absurd and unjust?
She didn't.
Is God sadistic? Why did he punish Eve and all her descendants with the pain of child birth?
Big brain= big head= painful childbirth, nowt to do with god.
Alan C. you have misunderstood me. My questions were to the Christian website Got Questions - not to people on this forum. The questions are derived from what the Bible says - not what is scientifically and historically true. If you can be bothered to read the Bible, you are welcome to read it and see how the questions are Biblically sound.

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Alan C.
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#76 Post by Alan C. » July 18th, 2012, 5:27 pm

Compo
If you can be bothered to read the Bible, you are welcome to read it and see how the questions are Biblically sound.
I read the bible almost 50 years ago (I assume it hasn't changed :) ) Believers can find justification for almost anything they assert; in the bible, likewise, I can point out just as many contradictions and discrepancies, the bible is not a good source to base your arguments on.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Compassionist
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#77 Post by Compassionist » July 18th, 2012, 6:00 pm

Alan C. wrote:
Compo
If you can be bothered to read the Bible, you are welcome to read it and see how the questions are Biblically sound.
I read the bible almost 50 years ago (I assume it hasn't changed :) ) Believers can find justification for almost anything they assert; in the bible, likewise, I can point out just as many contradictions and discrepancies, the bible is not a good source to base your arguments on.
I agree with you but the Christians claim that the Bible is the best source of information because it is God's Inerrant Words. That is why I asked the questions to the Christian website. I am curious about what answers they come up with. The Biblical worldview does not tally with scientific and historical facts. It is full of contradictions and discrepancies (as you rightly say) but the Christians either 'harmonise' them or ignore them.

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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#78 Post by Compassionist » July 18th, 2012, 6:06 pm

Kismet wrote:
animist wrote:
Compassionist wrote: The Bible says that people die because Adam and Eve sinned and all humans are descendants of Adam and Eve. In that case, why do other living things (e.g. plants, animals, fish, birds, bacteria, virus, etc.) die when they are not descendants of Adam and Eve? People are supposed to be saved from their sins by accepting Jesus as their personal saviour. If Jesus truly saves people from sin, why do these allegedly saved people still die given that death is claimed to be a consequence of sin? Why did God sacrifice animal to clothe Adam and Eve instead of using fabrics made by spinning cotton? Was it not unjust and cruel of God to kill the animals in order to use their skin to clothe Adam and Eve? Why weren't the fig leaves used by Adam and Eve enough for modesty? Vegans have a much more ethical lifestyle compared to meat-eaters and animal skin users. Why didn't God promote veganism? Why did God demand the deaths of innocent animals as sacrifice for sin? Isn't such demand cruel, absurd and unjust? If God created all living things why do living things eat other living things? And why are there parasites which cause terrible suffering? Is God sadistic? Why did he punish Eve and all her descendants with the pain of child birth?
great questions, but I doubt you will get much of an answer. Kismet, what is your answer?
Suffering comes about through living in a material world of opposites. God is actually not responsible for creating the material cosmos; we are, in a pre-existent state.
Exactly how do you know of this pre-existent state? How could we create the material cosmos before we even existed?

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Alan C.
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#79 Post by Alan C. » July 18th, 2012, 6:46 pm

Compo

I agree with you but the Christians claim that the Bible is the best source of information because it is God's Inerrant Words
But how can that be when there are so many inconsistencies?
but the Christians either 'harmonise' them or ignore them.
Quite! It's called cherry picking.

I don't believe there is a Christian alive who lives by all the tenets of the bible, in fact I'd go so far as to say it would be impossible.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Compassionist
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#80 Post by Compassionist » July 19th, 2012, 3:50 pm

Alan C. wrote:
Compo

I agree with you but the Christians claim that the Bible is the best source of information because it is God's Inerrant Words
But how can that be when there are so many inconsistencies?
but the Christians either 'harmonise' them or ignore them.
Quite! It's called cherry picking.

I don't believe there is a Christian alive who lives by all the tenets of the bible, in fact I'd go so far as to say it would be impossible.
According to the Bible, salvation is by faith in Jesus - it is not conditional on living an ethical life. Nothing else is required to spend an eternity in heaven. You could kill trillions of sentient organisms and still enjoy heaven forever and ever while the most ethical and charitable non-Christians will burn in eternal torment in the depths of hell. That's if the Bible is reliable.

I agree with you again. Despite lots of contradictions, errors and inconsistencies in the Bible, Christians still hold it to be 'inerrant'. Take the following as example:

The following is quoted from the Evangelical Alliance of the U.K. I have changed to bold the two points I would like to draw your attention to.
All our members agree that the below statements are true.

We believe in...

The one true God who lives eternally in three persons—the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The love, grace and sovereignty of God in creating, sustaining, ruling, redeeming and judging the world.
The divine inspiration and supreme authority of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, which are the written Word of God—fully trustworthy for faith and conduct.
The dignity of all people, made male and female in God's image to love, be holy and care for creation, yet corrupted by sin, which incurs divine wrath and judgement.
The incarnation of God’s eternal Son, the Lord Jesus Christ—born of the virgin Mary; truly divine and truly human, yet without sin.
The atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross: dying in our place, paying the price of sin and defeating evil, so reconciling us with God.
The bodily resurrection of Christ, the first fruits of our resurrection; his ascension to the Father, and his reign and mediation as the only Saviour of the world.
The justification of sinners solely by the grace of God through faith in Christ.
The ministry of God the Holy Spirit, who leads us to repentance, unites us with Christ through new birth, empowers our discipleship and enables our witness.
The Church, the body of Christ both local and universal, the priesthood of all believers—given life by the Spirit and endowed with the Spirit's gifts to worship God and proclaim the gospel, promoting justice and love.
The personal and visible return of Jesus Christ to fulfil the purposes of God, who will raise all people to judgement, bring eternal life to the redeemed and eternal condemnation to the lost, and establish a new heaven and new earth.

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Alan C.
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Re: Eternal torment in Hell

#81 Post by Alan C. » July 19th, 2012, 6:19 pm

The divine inspiration and supreme authority of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, which are the written Word of God—fully trustworthy for faith and conduct.
OK, ask your Christian "friends" why they largely ignore Deuteronomy and Leviticus among many others. Please let us know what they say.
The justification of sinners solely by the grace of God through faith in Christ.
If I believed in sin/sinners, I wouldn't/couldn't "justify" it by any means, that's just a religious get out of jail free card.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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