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Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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coffee
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Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#1 Post by coffee » February 15th, 2012, 9:57 am

Don’t believe everything you hear about belief.
February 14, 2012 by Jonathan Rowson
Filed under: Social Brain

http://www.rsablogs.org.uk/2012/socialb ... l+Brain%29

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#2 Post by coffee » February 15th, 2012, 10:03 am

Rejecting irrationality, embracing emotions
http://www.rsablogs.org.uk/2009/educati ... -emotions/

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#3 Post by coffee » February 15th, 2012, 10:12 am

Look out for the links at the end of the articles as you may find the related articles very useful!
Good luck.

Compassionist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#4 Post by Compassionist » February 15th, 2012, 11:17 am

Interesting blogs. Thank you for sharing. The thing is, we can't really know what is really real because of the untestable Simulation Hypothesis. For all we know, we could all be immersed in a simulation in an alien zoo.

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#5 Post by coffee » February 15th, 2012, 12:37 pm

Hello Compassionist, good to see you back! And thank you for the link.

Nick
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#6 Post by Nick » February 16th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Hi Coffee :)

Thanks for the links, but I'd like your opinion on why you think they are interesting, or brilliant, or wrong or whatever. That way, I'd expect more posters would comment. :)

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animist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#7 Post by animist » February 16th, 2012, 2:55 pm

I found the piece on the religious belief debate, in which the implication is that belief is not "really" about individual people and the propositions they make, interesting but questionable and possibly confused. To put it deliberately provocatively, my beliefs are my own and no-one else's, even though no doubt there are causal links between them and my upbringing, genes etc. And comparing the posts on this forum with those in Theologica, I don't think it is true to say that religious believers have more "philosophical nous" (or FTM "soul") than non-believers; and IMO they have little or no "imagination", being rooted to some old texts over which they endlessly chew, to show off to each other and to make sure that they are still saved from perdition :wink:

Certainly the point about differences over ontology was reasonable, and I think one should try to be clear about what one is talking, but I suppose that if we all spend ages going over definitions before actually saying anything, the discussions would never get off the ground!

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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#8 Post by Compassionist » February 16th, 2012, 7:55 pm

coffee wrote:Hello Compassionist, good to see you back! And thank you for the link.
Thank you and you are most welcome!

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#9 Post by coffee » February 17th, 2012, 10:18 am

Hi Nick,

My opinion is that it is very frustrating waiting for humanist group to come to my town so
that I can attend their meeting. So I am hoping humanists to embrace the science of
psychology to appeal people emotionally to increase their humanist memberships as well as
promoting reason, because I think reason alone is can be too abstract or challenging
for some people. Humanist Should use softer language a bit more to appeal potential
humanists and only combative language against the religious fundamentalist. Humanists should
try to create trusting atmosphere amomg their members and be supportive of their member to
live as a humanist. It is true that religion is in decline but it won't go away because
(particularly the christian) they are very good at creating trusting friendship and
supportive despite some of their irrational doctrine. Humanist might say more people are
going secular so that is okay but it is not because there is less trust and socially
supportive secular life, that is why people don't want to knock down the church even though
they don't believe in it.

Compassionist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#10 Post by Compassionist » February 18th, 2012, 6:19 pm

coffee wrote:Hi Nick,

My opinion is that it is very frustrating waiting for humanist group to come to my town so
that I can attend their meeting. So I am hoping humanists to embrace the science of
psychology to appeal people emotionally to increase their humanist memberships as well as
promoting reason, because I think reason alone is can be too abstract or challenging
for some people. Humanist Should use softer language a bit more to appeal potential
humanists and only combative language against the religious fundamentalist. Humanists should
try to create trusting atmosphere amomg their members and be supportive of their member to
live as a humanist. It is true that religion is in decline but it won't go away because
(particularly the christian) they are very good at creating trusting friendship and
supportive despite some of their irrational doctrine. Humanist might say more people are
going secular so that is okay but it is not because there is less trust and socially
supportive secular life, that is why people don't want to knock down the church even though
they don't believe in it.
Getting humanists to gather together is like herding cats - it is difficult. I wish there were more humanist communities where people love each other. I don't know of any humanist communities although I am aware of many religious communities e.g. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists, Bahai, Sikh, Jain, etc.

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Alan C.
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#11 Post by Alan C. » February 18th, 2012, 7:28 pm

I don't know of any humanist communities
Well this is one compo and I know there are ones in Ireland, are you still in Ireland?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Compassionist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#12 Post by Compassionist » February 19th, 2012, 9:04 am

Alan C. wrote:
I don't know of any humanist communities
Well this is one compo and I know there are ones in Ireland, are you still in Ireland?
This is an internet forum - not a community. I have met some kind and fascinating people here. I wish it was a community. I know there are Humanist Associations but I am talking about actual communities such as the Bruderhof communities. I am a life member of the Humanist Society Scoctland but I don't live in a humanist community because I don't know of any. There aren't any children's activities run by the humanists but there are such activities run by various religious groups e.g. summer camps or afterschool club or trips, etc. When I was in Dundee, I started the annual humanist picnics. I was able to bring my son to that. Since moving to Belfast I was a member of the Humanist Association of Northern Ireland for one year but I did not renew the membership.

lewist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#13 Post by lewist » February 19th, 2012, 10:49 am

Compassionist! TH is as much of a community as we can make it. I received a huge amount of support from TH members when Maureen died and I have continued to do so. That possibility is one of the things that takes TH beyond the realms of being only a forum. I'm not the only one who benefits from the support of the community that is TH.

We meet as and when we can, those of us who wish to. I even almost met you once, but you were ill and couldn't make it.

The point about TH is that it is what we make it. I know Humanists near where I live but most Humanists don't even know they are and they get on with their lives.

For your son, Woodcraft Folk might be good but they don't seem to be active in Northern Ireland. Woodcraft Folk is the equivalent of Scouts and Guides, part of the Cooperative Movement, and completely secular. It might be worth looking into but their website doesn't hold out much hope.

I seem to be rambling. What I really wanted to say was that if you want TH to be a community then it is. We don't meet regularly but we are there if you need us, with sage advice from some, or understanding and empathy from others. If we need it to be, TH is a source of fun and laughter, of understanding and wise counsel.

Thanks for the link to Bruderhof. Apart from anything else, I spent huge amounts of money at Community Playthings when I was a headteacher without knowing anything about the company, which is in fact part of Bruderhof. Their products are expensive but absolutely superb.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

Compassionist
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#14 Post by Compassionist » February 19th, 2012, 1:39 pm

lewist wrote:Compassionist! TH is as much of a community as we can make it. I received a huge amount of support from TH members when Maureen died and I have continued to do so. That possibility is one of the things that takes TH beyond the realms of being only a forum. I'm not the only one who benefits from the support of the community that is TH.

We meet as and when we can, those of us who wish to. I even almost met you once, but you were ill and couldn't make it.

The point about TH is that it is what we make it. I know Humanists near where I live but most Humanists don't even know they are and they get on with their lives.

For your son, Woodcraft Folk might be good but they don't seem to be active in Northern Ireland. Woodcraft Folk is the equivalent of Scouts and Guides, part of the Cooperative Movement, and completely secular. It might be worth looking into but their website doesn't hold out much hope.

I seem to be rambling. What I really wanted to say was that if you want TH to be a community then it is. We don't meet regularly but we are there if you need us, with sage advice from some, or understanding and empathy from others. If we need it to be, TH is a source of fun and laughter, of understanding and wise counsel.

Thanks for the link to Bruderhof. Apart from anything else, I spent huge amounts of money at Community Playthings when I was a headteacher without knowing anything about the company, which is in fact part of Bruderhof. Their products are expensive but absolutely superb.
Like you, I have received a great deal of support from members of this forum during episodes of Bipolar Disorder and also about religious pressures as I am an ex-Muslim ex-Christian Humanist.

I think it depends on how you define a community. This internet forum certainly has some of aspects of community but it lacks the shared daily activities members of Bruderhof engage in. I would love to hug but internet doesn't facilitate that yet. In the future, augmented reality interfaces to the brain might allow the experience of hug but the technology is not yet ready.

Sorry I was ill the day you came to Aberdeen. Before that I had met up with some of the members of this forum in Aberdeen and certainly would love to meet more members. Thanks for the link to Woodcraft Folk but they are not active in Northern Ireland. Is Scouts religious in the UK?

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Alan C.
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#15 Post by Alan C. » February 19th, 2012, 4:35 pm

Is Scouts religious in the UK?
Unfortunately, yes.
You are required to swear allegiance to God and the Queen.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#16 Post by coffee » February 20th, 2012, 11:51 am

Thanks for the Woodcraft Folk link Compassionist, I know someone who might find it useful.

coffee
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#17 Post by coffee » February 20th, 2012, 11:57 am

OOps Sorry, it should be lewist! Terrible mistake, me.

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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#18 Post by Compassionist » February 20th, 2012, 8:31 pm

Alan C. wrote:
Is Scouts religious in the UK?
Unfortunately, yes.
You are required to swear allegiance to God and the Queen.
Thanks for telling me.

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Val
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#19 Post by Val » February 21st, 2012, 8:50 pm

Not sure if this is off-topic here or if it is a good place to ask my question. Has anyone any advice for me re my grandson's determination to start at the Boys Brigade tomorrow?. He is 6 and lots of his primary school friends are going. I can't stop him going but help would be good to counteract any nonsense he is liked to be fed. Does anyone know how they work?

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Alan C.
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Re: Believers vs. Non-Believers--Stalemate?

#20 Post by Alan C. » February 21st, 2012, 9:55 pm

Does anyone know how they work?
Sorry I can't offer more Val, but pretty much on the same lines as the scouts, religious lines.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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