INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used. For further information, see our Privacy Policy. Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

Saudi women fight back?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
Message
Author
Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Saudi women fight back?

#1 Post by Fia » May 13th, 2011, 8:59 pm

2 stories have engendered my interest today:
go, sisters, go
We have searched for laws that prohibit women in Saudi Arabia from exercising their right to drive their own vehicle but have not found anything that points to such [a prohibition] in Saudi traffic laws. Therefore, what we will do cannot be considered a violation of the law. We therefore have decided that beginning on Friday the 15th of Rajab, 1432, which corresponds to the 17th of June, 2011
Saudi women, I fervently hope in droves, will drive themselves...

and if Saudi women must wear an abaya at least do it colourfully?
The abaya is the long, black cloak that all women have to wear by law when out in public. .... At the height of summer, temperatures in Saudi reach about 50C, so a long, dark robe is the last thing you feel like putting on.
This designers abayas are colourful, intricate and expensive. I'm torn between loving the idea as no human should be forced into covering their bodies with dull fabric, with a hope this may gradually undermine ridiculously restrictive religious dress codes, or seeing it as an expensive bit of fluff that will be used by the male religionistas as an example of decadent western society.

What do you good folk think?

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#2 Post by thundril » May 13th, 2011, 9:56 pm

I think it's time men stopped telling women what they can or can't wear - and as a man, I thereby disqualify myself from any further opinion.

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#3 Post by animist » May 14th, 2011, 8:24 am

I hope the driving campaign works and does not get attacked by thugs. On the abaya issue, why is it always black, which we know absorbs heat? If anyone objects to colour as sinful, why not white, which reflects heat and protects the skin?

User avatar
Carja
Posts: 2325
Joined: September 4th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#4 Post by Carja » May 14th, 2011, 3:46 pm

Women who have to cover themselves so extremely also have a higher risk of Osteoporosis since they don't get the benefits of sunlight. It's unhealthy to force these women to dress like this, both physically and mentally. It is hell to be looked upon as less of a human being based on gender. At least in other countries, women were able to stand up for their rights and eventually win most of them. If these women do try to rise above it, they risk being assaulted on the street by men, having acid thrown on them, or being arrested and whipped or worse. Countries like this seem to be able to teach men how to abuse their power, but teach them nothing about how to be honorable and compassionate.
Women cannot even board an airplane without their father's or husband's permission. If they could, I bet there would be thousands of these women fleeing their country.
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley

ludite
Posts: 603
Joined: April 4th, 2010, 8:06 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#5 Post by ludite » May 14th, 2011, 5:24 pm

More evidence of the evil that religion is put to. It as always been used as a controlle over people. The churches in the west have lost this total controle but it is still used in saudi to controle the women. What baffles me is WHY are they (the authorities) frightened of letting women make choices for themselves why why why. I am confused weather it is just the way that islam is interpreted that puts the presure on men to controle women or if it is men using religion as a licence to controle their women(wifes daughters)

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#6 Post by Fia » May 14th, 2011, 10:42 pm

Carja wrote:Women who have to cover themselves so extremely also have a higher risk of Osteoporosis since they don't get the benefits of sunlight.
Rickets too - another vitamin D deficient disease, which is becoming a big problem for body covering women and girls in the UK.
Carja wrote:If these women do try to rise above it, they risk being assaulted on the street by men, having acid thrown on them, or being arrested and whipped or worse.
Quite, which is why our Saudi sisters are so brave in their driving protest. I sincerely hope there's enough of the brave ones on 17 June and onwards to make it such a big point the men have to listen rather than attack.
Carja wrote:Women cannot even board an airplane without their father's or husband's permission. If they could, I bet there would be thousands of these women fleeing their country.
I dunno about that. It's their home, where their families and roots are. The society needs to be changed from within.
ludite wrote:...What baffles me is WHY are they (the authorities) frightened of letting women make choices for themselves why why why. I am confused weather it is just the way that islam is interpreted that puts the presure on men to controle women or if it is men using religion as a licence to controle their women(wifes daughters)
I, doubtless unsurprisingly, have a take on that ludite :) Throughout history men have wanted to control women's sexuality. At a basic level, they want to know that any children their partner/s have are theirs. There's no point in them providing for another man's child. This attitude is seen not only in clothing and womens social rights but in female circumcision, religious rites and laws for menstruating women - we're 'unclean' FFS -, stoning a woman for adultery, er how does that work then? The men have as many women as they want and that's just hunky dory :shrug:

It was interesting the first article said that women dress to 'protect themselves from men'. As I’ve said before, these ridiculous, inequitable, controlling dress codes are there because apparently men can’t control their dicks. Men are perfectly capable, if they try, to not sexually assault a woman dressed in whichever way she feels fit. The religions reinforce subjugation by insisting it's a female duty to cover up as it well suits their control agenda. It makes for a grand society for the men yet imprisonment and suppression for the women.
So yes, I think it’s partly the way that religion is interpreted through the leaders and through the cultural arena, and partly because it suits the men to live this way.

Like Carja I'm nonplussed that male compassion, and I would add, empathy and some attempt at understanding of women's lives, seems sorely lacking. I guess the religion sorts that out :headbang:

User avatar
Carja
Posts: 2325
Joined: September 4th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#7 Post by Carja » May 14th, 2011, 11:59 pm

I really don't understand why men would want to live like this either.

To the men here: Would you really be happy to only associate with men when you leave your home? Always being segregated? Never seeing anyone but men or black cells walking around? Always having to have the women in your family under control? Having to marry a woman you hardly know that your family picked out for you?

It seems like men would want more freedom for women, because that would give them more freedom.
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#8 Post by animist » May 15th, 2011, 6:45 pm

Carja wrote:I really don't understand why men would want to live like this either.

To the men here: Would you really be happy to only associate with men when you leave your home? Always being segregated? Never seeing anyone but men or black cells walking around? Always having to have the women in your family under control? Having to marry a woman you hardly know that your family picked out for you?

It seems like men would want more freedom for women, because that would give them more freedom.
that is sensible thinking. But it is impossible for a mere male who is not religious to get into the mind of some male who is, and who no doubt feels that his religion and/or honour is all that he has in view of the dominance of the secular (= materialist and immoral, from his viewpoint) values beamed constantly from the West. Your comment about having to control women reminds me of a comment in Germaine Greer's "The Female Eunuch": sexism is unfair in different ways to both sexes

Beki
Posts: 710
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 8:43 am

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#9 Post by Beki » May 23rd, 2011, 12:19 am

I can't understand why we even acknowledge this disgusting regime. Oh, wait a minute - they have the entire capacity of the world's spare oil - that may well have something to do with it.....

If I wasn't already a fan, the single biggest reason for investing in renewable energy solutions would be to remove the bargaining power of this horrible country. harumph!

Go forth and drive sisters - I'll be parping my horn in support!!
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - M Ghandi

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#10 Post by Alan H » May 23rd, 2011, 12:56 am

Welcome back, Beki!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
jaywhat
Posts: 15807
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#11 Post by jaywhat » May 23rd, 2011, 6:09 am

Fia wrote: ....... Throughout history men have wanted to control women's sexuality. At a basic level, they want to know that any children their partner/s have are theirs. There's no point in them providing for another man's child......
Quite a few animals have the same attitude, like male lions killing the young that are not theirs.

User avatar
anaconda
Posts: 219
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 11:07 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#12 Post by anaconda » May 23rd, 2011, 2:27 pm

Beki wrote:I can't understand why we even acknowledge this disgusting regime. Oh, wait a minute - they have the entire capacity of the world's spare oil - that may well have something to do with it.....

If I wasn't already a fan, the single biggest reason for investing in renewable energy solutions would be to remove the bargaining power of this horrible country. harumph!

Go forth and drive sisters - I'll be parping my horn in support!!

Amen to that. Its the best/worst example of selective international policy making. Saudi Arabia's army recently entered Bahrain to quell the indigenous public outcry against their government. Other than benign finger waving the west did sod all about it, They were quite happy to blitz Libya, an altogether more politically acceptable enemy. I suppose it would be naive to expect anything else, but the ease with which the west seems prepared to accept/ignore this crap is galling.
John

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#13 Post by Fia » May 25th, 2011, 9:32 am

some have started driving already.
On May 22, 2011, another Saudi woman, Manal Al-Sharif, drove her car with the famous Saudi women rights activist Wajeeha Al-Huwaider sat beside her and her brother and son in the back seats.

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#14 Post by Dave B » May 25th, 2011, 10:19 am

There was an interview, perhaps with Manal al-Sharif, on BBC WS some days ago. The interviewee said that the "ban" was not a legal or religious thing but cultural. I did wonder from her description of the attitude of the police whether they were merely waiting for some sort of adverse public reaction, then they could step in for the sake of public peace. Trouble is such "reaction" is probably easy to manufacture in that country.

I missed the details but it seems that there have been discussions regarding women driving, voting and working in Saudi. But it was also noted that this is a country that is entirely ruled on traditional tribal values overseen by an almost all powerful religious system.

Though they also said that the Royal Family/government were also starting to pay dole money and up some of the benefits and services offered to the people. Though I do wonder if this extends to immigrant workers who used to be virtually without rights and services.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

User avatar
moslem
Posts: 31
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 10:20 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#15 Post by moslem » June 2nd, 2011, 10:13 am

but see how is the woman in Europa:
Adultery
Rape
Naked
Commodity
Used in the markets : we see pictures of women in the market>>>

Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings without any guardianship over her (whether that be her father, husband, or anyone else). She has the right to buy and sell, give gifts and charity, and may spend her money as she pleases. A marriage dowry is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband’s.

Islam encourages the husband to treat his wife well, as the Prophet Muhammad said: {The best among you are those who are best to their wives.}1

Mothers in Islam are highly honored. Islam recommends treating them in the best way. A man came to the Prophet Muhammad and said, “O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship?” The Prophet said: {Your mother.} The man said, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man further asked, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man asked again, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your father.}
http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/a ... In%20Islam
Allah (God)says in his book ( Qur'an):
19. And the stupor of death will come in truth: "This is what you have been avoiding!"

http://www.islamhouse.com

User avatar
moslem
Posts: 31
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 10:20 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#16 Post by moslem » June 2nd, 2011, 10:14 am

SHAMEFUL DAUGHTERS ?

In fact, the difference between the Biblical and the Quranic attitude towards the female sex starts as soon as a female is born. For example, the Bible states that the period of the mother's ritual impurity is twice as long if a girl is born than if a boy is (Lev. 12:2-5). The Catholic Bible states explicitly that:

"The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).

In contrast to this shocking statement, boys receive special praise:

"A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)

Jewish Rabbis made it an obligation on Jewish men to produce offspring in order to propagate the race. At the same time, they did not hide their clear preference for male children : "It is well for those whose children are male but ill for those whose are female", "At the birth of a boy, all are joyful...at the birth of a girl all are sorrowful", and "When a boy comes into the world, peace comes into the world... When a girl comes, nothing comes."7

A daughter is considered a painful burden, a potential source of shame to her father:

"Your daughter is headstrong? Keep a sharp look-out that she does not make you the laughing stock of your enemies, the talk of the town, the object of common gossip, and put you to public shame" (Ecclesiasticus 42:11).

"Keep a headstrong daughter under firm control, or she will abuse any indulgence she receives. Keep a strict watch on her shameless eye, do not be surprised if she disgraces you" (Ecclesiasticus 26:10-11).

It was this very same idea of treating daughters as sources of shame that led the pagan Arabs, before the advent of Islam, to practice female infanticide. The Quran severely condemned this heinous practice:

"When news is brought to one of them of the birth of a female child, his face darkens and he is filled with inward grief. With shame does he hide himself from his people because of the bad news he has had! Shall he retain her on contempt or bury her in the dust? Ah! what an evil they decide on?" (16:59).

It has to be mentioned that this sinister crime would have never stopped in Arabia were it not for the power of the scathing terms the Quran used to condemn this practice (16:59, 43:17, 81:8-9). The Quran, moreover, makes no distinction between boys and girls. In contrast to the Bible, the Quran considers the birth of a female as a gift and a blessing from God, the same as the birth of a male. The Quran even mentions the gift of the female birth first:

" To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He creates what He wills. He bestows female children to whomever He wills and bestows male children to whomever He wills" (42:49).

In order to wipe out all the traces of female infanticide in the nascent Muslim society, Prophet Muhammad promised those who were blessed with daughters of a great reward if they would bring them up kindly:

"He who is involved in bringing up daughters, and accords benevolent treatment towards them, they will be protection for him against Hell-Fire" (Bukhari and Muslim).

"Whoever maintains two girls till they attain maturity, he and I will come on the Resurrection Day like this; and he joined his fingers" (Muslim).

5. FEMALE EDUCATION ?

The difference between the Biblical and the Quranic conceptions of women is not limited to the newly born female, it extends far beyond that. Let us compare their attitudes towards a female trying to learn her religion. The heart of Judaism is the Torah, the law. However, according to the Talmud, "women are exempt from the study of the Torah." Some Jewish Rabbis firmly declared "Let the words of Torah rather be destroyed by fire than imparted to women", and "Whoever teaches his daughter Torah is as though he taught her obscenity"8

The attitude of St. Paul in the New Testament is not brighter:

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

How can a woman learn if she is not allowed to speak? How can a woman grow intellectually if she is obliged to be in a state of full submission? How can she broaden her horizons if her one and only source of information is her husband at home?

Now, to be fair, we should ask: is the Quranic position any different? One short story narrated in the Quran sums its position up concisely. Khawlah was a Muslim woman whose husband Aws pronounced this statement at a moment of anger: "You are to me as the back of my mother." This was held by pagan Arabs to be a statement of divorce which freed the husband from any conjugal responsibility but did not leave the wife free to leave the husband's home or to marry another man. Having heard these words from her husband, Khawlah was in a miserable situation. She went straight to the Prophet of Islam to plead her case. The Prophet was of the opinion that she should be patient since there seemed to be no way out. Khawla kept arguing with the Prophet in an attempt to save her suspended marriage. Shortly, the Quran intervened; Khawla's plea was accepted. The divine verdict abolished this iniquitous custom. One full chapter (Chapter 58) of the Quran whose title is "Almujadilah" or "The woman who is arguing" was named after this incident:

"Allah has heard and accepted the statement of the woman who pleads with you (the Prophet) concerning her husband and carries her complaint to Allah, and Allah hears the arguments between both of you for Allah hears and sees all things...." (58:1).

A woman in the Quranic conception has the right to argue even with the Prophet of Islam himself. No one has the right to instruct her to be silent. She is under no obligation to consider her husband the one and only reference in matters of law and religion.

6. UNCLEAN IMPURE WOMAN ?

Jewish laws and regulations concerning menstruating women are extremely restrictive. The Old Testament considers any menstruating woman as unclean and impure. Moreover, her impurity "infects" others as well. Anyone or anything she touches becomes unclean for a day:

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening" (Lev. 15:19-23).

Due to her "contaminating" nature, a menstruating woman was sometimes "banished" in order to avoid any possibility of any contact with her. She was sent to a special house called "the house of uncleanness" for the whole period of her impurity. 9 The Talmud considers a menstruating woman "fatal" even without any physical contact:

"Our Rabbis taught:....if a menstruant woman passes between two (men), if it is at the beginning of her menses she will slay one of them, and if it is at the end of her menses she will cause strife between them" (bPes. 111a.)

Furthermore, the husband of a menstruous woman was forbidden to enter the synagogue if he had been made unclean by her even by the dust under her feet. A priest whose wife, daughter, or mother was menstruating could not recite priestly blessing in the synagogue. 10 No wonder many Jewish women still refer to menstruation as "the curse." 11

Islam does not consider a menstruating woman to possess any kind of "contagious uncleanness". She is neither "untouchable" nor "cursed." She practises her normal life with only one restriction: A married couple are not allowed to have sexual intercourse during the period of menstruation. Any other physical contact between them is permissible. A menstruating woman is exempted from some rituals such as daily prayers and fasting during her period.
Allah (God)says in his book ( Qur'an):
19. And the stupor of death will come in truth: "This is what you have been avoiding!"

http://www.islamhouse.com

User avatar
moslem
Posts: 31
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 10:20 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#17 Post by moslem » June 2nd, 2011, 10:17 am

THE VEIL

Finally, let us shed some light on what is considered in the West as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity".77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78

The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81

What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).

St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that requires women to cover their heads in church. 82 Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God", which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. 83

From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (24:30,31).

The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (33:59).

This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better to be safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished:

"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (24:4)

Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible:

" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deut. 22:28-30)

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?

Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like Queen's has a 'walk home service' mainly for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I could not believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:

In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,

1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,

1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,

1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and

A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.

Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer but as K. Gibran has said, "...for the person who receives the blows is not like the one who counts them." 84 Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.

It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn for the purpose of showing the authority of man by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of protection by Muslim women.
http://sultan.org/articles/women.html
Allah (God)says in his book ( Qur'an):
19. And the stupor of death will come in truth: "This is what you have been avoiding!"

http://www.islamhouse.com

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#18 Post by Alan H » June 2nd, 2011, 1:53 pm

moslem

When you are not using your own words and are simply copy and pasting what someone else has written, please say so and provide a link to the original source.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#19 Post by Alan H » June 2nd, 2011, 2:21 pm

moslem wrote:but see how is the woman in Europa:
Adultery
It takes two, usually a woman and a man.
Rape
Almost always it's a man who rapes a woman. Do you think all women who are raped were asking to be raped and wanted to be raped? Do you think the man has any responsibility or are they just doing what men do?
Naked
I don't see many of them - can you tell me where you think these naked women are?
Commodity
Please explain.
Used in the markets : we see pictures of women in the market>>>
Is your problem with pictures of women, and, if so, why, or just a problem with pictures of women 'in the market'?
Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings without any guardianship over her (whether that be her father, husband, or anyone else). She has the right to buy and sell, give gifts and charity, and may spend her money as she pleases. A marriage dowry is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband’s.
Do women have all the same rights as men, or just the ones you mention? Should women be allowed to drive cars?
Islam encourages the husband to treat his wife well, as the Prophet Muhammad said: {The best among you are those who are best to their wives.}1
Does it take your prophet to tell you how to treat women or do you think you could work out the moral way to treat women without your prophet?
Mothers in Islam are highly honored. Islam recommends treating them in the best way. A man came to the Prophet Muhammad and said, “O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship?” The Prophet said: {Your mother.} The man said, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man further asked, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man asked again, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your father.}
http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/a ... In%20Islam
Mothers certainly deserve to be honoured, but what about those women that choose not to be mothers or those that cannot be mothers? Do they deserve the same respect?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Saudi women fight back?

#20 Post by Nick » June 2nd, 2011, 5:16 pm

And another thing: what is the point of comparing Islam to Jewry and Christianity on this site? We don't subscribe to any Abrahamic superstitions.

Post Reply