Dave B wrote:
This is beginning to sound even more abstract than the discussion as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!
Later: Ah - the answer
What about how many angels can dance on the point of a pin?
..only one, and he might feel a prick ;)
Fia wrote: philbo wrote:
Hey, at least *someone*'s been reading what I've written..
I know that wasn't directed at us lurkers, but despite my woeful lack of knowledge of logic I'm enjoying this thread.
At the end of the day I don't really care if god/s do or don't exist: I know that having lived my life with honesty, integrity, caring, creativity and thoughtfulness without any belief in an unnecessary infinite being, if I'm completely wrong my life will speak for itself.
..but depending on which set of rules you look at, you may be more likely to get into heaven after a life of debauchery, paedophilia and murder so long as there's someone to confess your sins to before you die.
mickeyd wrote:Dawkins has publicly stated his inability to explain altruism. And as I've pointed out it's unlikely he regards his love for his wife as merely the imperative for propagating his genes (and the imperative remains unexplained in any case).
Oh, FFS, please read some of his books before you start misrepresenting what he says.
mickeyd wrote:Everyone clearly believes that human beings have value even before they're born (abortion laws) and even after they die (desecration laws).
er.. no, they don't. Not *everyone* - otherwise why do some people have (many) abortions, and lots of people (myself included) really don't give a shit what happens to their body after they die.
mickeyd wrote:I was struck by the inconsistency shown in the recent furore in Scotland about the disposal of aborted foetuses as hospital clinical waste. Why all the fuss? This certainly makes the point that human beings regard themselves and others as having value beyond that which can be demonstrated by their material constitution - indeed, a value which is held to exist even for dead foetuses which are aged under the abortion time limit, by those who do not believe that abortion is murder (the complaintants included Scottish health officials and politicians). Now if this doesn't demonstrate that we think human beings have value beyond the materialist premise I don't know what does. The question for humanists then is this: you believe what your premise cannot justify, so why not reject the premise? To be consistent you must.
You really are terminally incapable of thinking straight, aren't you? Surely the simple fact that there was a fuss & furore about aborted foetuses is clear and uncategorical proof that not all people think the same? If everybody did value dead tissue as equivalent to dead human beings, there would have been nothing for there to be a fuss about.
mickeyd wrote:The simple truth is, if materialism is true, then your life is irretrievably meaningless and absurd. If it’s true, human life is the cruellest joke, a tragedy of indescribable proportions, where unique personal beings that can conceive of eternity, and of loving for eternity, will be extinguished never to return, never to be seen or heard again.
Meaningless and absurd - yes, absolutely. Tragedy of indescribable proportions? No, that's hyperbolic rubbish. It's tragic, comic and all the absurdities in between. Making shit up to make oneself feel better about it doesn't work for me, though.
mickeyd wrote:Gone, not gone somewhere, just totally gone. Anyone who really believed this would be incapable of resolving grief over the loss of loved ones, ones truly loved. If time heals their wounds, it is not time that has healed, but the absence of belief in the heart of the materialism they profess with the mouth, or a remodelling of its implications to make them less appalling.
Far better that they're just gone than spending an eternity in the fiery pit of hell, though. And seeing as the rules on who gets into heaven are so fickle and depend on which particular interpretation of the most ambiguous book ever written, you, I and the rest of the planet will be far better off if once we die we simply cease to exist any further on any plane.
In the name of God the semantic logic-chopper, God the hole-filler and God the holy comfort blanket...