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When did Jesus develop a halo?

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Alan H
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When did Jesus develop a halo?

#1 Post by Alan H » July 2nd, 2010, 8:08 pm

From this week's New Scientist:
When did Jesus develop a halo?

IS THERE a particular moment when an unborn baby becomes human? What if the baby is Jesus - does he become divine at that same moment?

These questions are raised by an ad campaign featuring an ultrasound image of an unborn baby in the womb. The baby has a halo, and the image is captioned: "He's on His way. Christmas starts with Christ."

The poster, launched on 9 June, is the brainchild of ChurchAds.net, which hopes Christian groups will buy space to display it in bus shelters and the like around the UK in the run-up to Christmas.

Many might prefer this rather startling image of "Jesus"-in-utero to the saccharine sentimentality of most Christmas cards, but there is a subtext. The image is apparently an attempt to communicate one of the more mind-stretching doctrines of the First Council of Nicaea of AD 325 - that Jesus was born both fully human and fully God.

This prompts some concerns. As critics at the New Humanist blog were quick to note, the ultrasound Jesus may be a subtle way to promote an anti-abortion agenda. Ultrasound images of fetuses are routinely brandished by anti-abortion campaigners outside clinics where abortions are performed.

A spokesman for the UK's Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC) is right behind the image, metaphorically speaking. Quoted in UK newspaper The Guardian, John Smeaton says: "They have a halo round his head and you don't have a halo around the head of a blob of jelly or a cluster of cells. It is about the humanity of the unborn."

One aspect of the humanity of the unborn, however, is that if "Jesus" was a fetus when this scan was taken, then a few weeks earlier a cluster of cells is exactly what he would have been. Are we to understand that he would not have had a halo then? Would the problem have been the absence of a head? Did the fetus not become divine until the "primitive streak" - the first manifestation of the nervous system - created a head end to put a halo around? Was he neither human nor divine before that?

Oddly enough, as New Scientist correspondent Debora MacKenzie recalls, that is precisely the position the UK adopted in 1989, after a panel of biologists, along with the philosopher Mary Warnock, advised that unused human embryos created during fertility treatments did not become officially human until the formation of the streak, at which point they should no longer be used for research.

If the SPUC is saying embryos don't deserve a halo until the primitive streak develops, then maybe we have a rare agreement here between scientists and fundamentalist campaigner.
Alan Henness

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Dave B
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#2 Post by Dave B » July 2nd, 2010, 8:36 pm

Holy Sperm!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan C.
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#3 Post by Alan C. » July 2nd, 2010, 8:46 pm

When did Jesus develop a halo?
I believe the Jesus myth was given a halo in the fourth or fifth century but as I believe (on lack of evidence) that the guy never existed, I'm not getting into yet another debate on the subject.

Though I could probably be tempted :twisted:

Historical evidence anyone? Please don't come without any, I don't count hearsay.

Edited to ask,
Where was "Jesus" and what was he doing between the age of 12 and 30?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Gottard
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#4 Post by Gottard » July 2nd, 2010, 8:52 pm

Scientifically interesting but were ultrasound machines 'in situ' during Jesus' gastrulation?
Why those machines were hidden to Humanity for so many centuries? :laughter:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Dave B
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#5 Post by Dave B » July 2nd, 2010, 9:13 pm

Where was "Jesus" and what was he doing between the age of 12 and 30?
Always a good question, never yet seen a good answer!

Come on, Alan, humans have not changed much psychologically for many thousands of years - just know more these days. Thus the chances that some "entrepreneur" type spotted some likely lad with a bit of charisma and, maybe, more intelligence and logic than the average Jew of the time and decided he was onto a good thing.

That Jesus is in any way holy I will not give space to, that a man with the right characteristics to influence others and get them to follow him I can easily believe - it has happened so many times. The later PR and promotion is a bit more difficult to account for, but there were maybe some good minds behind it. Once they realised they could turn it into power over the people . . .

Jesus was just the trigger and the poor sap that took the rap, maybe believing in his own sanctity whilst he did so. But only human.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan C.
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#6 Post by Alan C. » July 2nd, 2010, 9:45 pm

Jesus was just the trigger and the poor sap that took the rap, maybe believing in his own sanctity whilst he did so. But only human.
Sorry Dave but just like Mithra, and a myriad of other "prophets" Jesus is a myth.

I ask again for historical evidence of his existence.
There is none!

Or does someone know better?


Thought not.
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Nick
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#7 Post by Nick » July 3rd, 2010, 12:52 am

In a previous life, when a young student accountant in London, I had to audit the books of the Society for the Protection of the Unborn Child, and was strongly repremanded for referring to the charity by the entirely appropriate acronym
Spoiler:
SPUnC
More seriously (but only in the la-la world of religion), there is centuries of discussion within religion, especially Catholicism, (for obvious reasons,) about the precise timing of "ensoulment". Invent a stupid concept and it leads to more and more absurd conclusions.

Mike
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#8 Post by Mike » July 3rd, 2010, 5:48 am

Edited to ask,
Where was "Jesus" and what was he doing between the age of 12 and 30?


If he was anything like my teenagers he was probably being a right royal pain in the arse!

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Ninny
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#9 Post by Ninny » July 3rd, 2010, 8:38 am

I think ancient statues had pans on thin stalks above their heads to protect them from bird-droppings. When statues went christian, the halo came along too, and stayed, even in paintings, where there is no need of protection from guano. Now, have I made this up, or is it the true explanation of the origin of the halo?

Nick
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#10 Post by Nick » July 3rd, 2010, 10:00 am

Couldn't it be as simple as wishing to identify the good guys when depicting them in art? More appropriate than having an arrow attached to your head.


Having said that, I half-remember a famous old-master painting (I think of the crucifixion?) where one of the by-standers is pointing out the good guys with an enormous ET-like finger. I must try to find it.

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Dave B
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#11 Post by Dave B » July 3rd, 2010, 10:11 am

Now, the true story is (as written by myself aged about 12) that the "angels" who attended Mary on the night of the Immaculate Conception were actually from a planet round Alpha Centauri. The "wings" were their life support equipment (just like that Dan Dare had) and the ring that appeared to be round their heads was a bubble helmet.

I had no knowledge of artificial insemination then but that slots nicely into this story.

So, shades of von Daniken, the halo is just a folk memory of part of the environmental gear used by aliens coming to start a new experiment, or maybe establish a new order, on Earth. This accepted the rest of the miracles are just superior technology (now, what was that Arthur Clark quote?)

Simple ennit?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#12 Post by Nick » July 3rd, 2010, 10:45 am

I think Arthur C. Clarke would have done better than "Simple ennit?"


Oh, I see! You were quoting Arthur Clark! Well yes, I suppose he may well have said that! :D


And by the way, the way you describe the Immaculate Conception makes it sound like a Divine Bonk. The cannot be "a night of the Immaculate Conception" (even in Catholic theology). It means that the Blessed Virgin was herself conceived free of 'orignal sin', a unique accolade in the history of the human race. (Yeah, I know it's bollox, but that's what it means.)

But don't feel bad about it. Most Catholics, in my experience, make the same mistake. And you were only 12.... What you were thinking of was the Annunciation.

But it's still great fun to catch out any stray catholics you may come across by asking what it means.... :twisted:

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Dave B
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#13 Post by Dave B » July 3rd, 2010, 11:11 am

As you say, Nick, I was 12 at the time. But I have to admit that I have forgotten the actual meanings of the various terms used.

It was about two years before this that I also decided it was a load of bollix and stuck with science (and science fiction, which I knew was fiction.) Hence the idea that the Bible is just a science fiction/fantasy story in essence.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: When did Jesus develop a halo?

#14 Post by Nick » July 3rd, 2010, 11:42 am

I presume from your post above, that you were once a Catholic....? What led to your enlightenment? Sorry if you think that's nosy- there's no need to share if you don't want to, but it's always interesting. And there's a thread for such discussions somewhere....


...ah, yes. In the Private Forum. Top of the list, saved as a sticky.

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