Religious privilege

[ludite]

Latest post of the previous page:

Ban all bell ringing practice.My first flat was next door to a paris church the sound on a wednesday evening was enough to loosen the fillings in my teeth.There is no chance to stop or quiet them down.Machinery woild never be allowed to make as much noise as that. In fact I have worked in factories that had to modify machinery that was not as loud as that.

[Nick]

What do you think of the hoo-hah over the possible activities for Ratzo's visit to Britain?

No-one in their right mind could possibly think the propositions were serious. The worst offence is possibly wasting Civil Service time, but not nearly as much as the waste of time and money incurred by an official visit by such a nasty individual as Ratzo.

What I would highlight most, however, is the unjustifiable censorship of opinion. If the poor sensative petal that is The Vicar of Christ on Earth can't take a joke, then how much more offensive is it that he should tell a woman that she cannot have any control over her own body by using contraception, and tell a gay or lesbian couple that their relationship is wrong and should not be allowed.

[tubataxidriver]

I think this is quite instructive, and seems to indicate the real feelings about organised religions within Whitehall. Let's face it, Catholic 'teachings' on these various issues conflict directly with UK law, custom and culture, so why shouldn't these things be said. The outrageous aspect of this is the fake outrage from the Catholic Church.

[peterangus]

Restrictions on Sunday activities............trading, transport, sport.............but not on bellringing.

[Doc]

... & Christian prayers at the beginning of Council Meetings to give us all a bit of moral guidance...

[Nick]

According to Radio 4 The Daily Mail thinks there is a danger the trip may be cancelled because of the offence caused to the poor old boy.

Excellent! Keep it up!

I also bitterly resent the comments of the Catholic Bishop of Nottingham. I'd send him an email, but it's not listed. His phone number is though...

I also think the BBC are biased in not reporting the outrage caused by the RC's reaction. An email to the Beeb, methinks.

[jaywhat]

Interesting this. I work for the NHS and often walked past the hospital priest. It never even dawned on me that he might be receiving a salary via the NHS.

Manuel, the NHS spend £4,000,000 a year on chaplains wages alone, on top of that there is the money it costs to provide and maintain the actual chapels within the hospitals.

If a godbotherer is in hospital and needs a Priest, Vicar, Imam, Rabi, Shaman or whatever, why can't they just call on their local one to go and visit as a normal part of their pastoral duties? Isn't that what these "faith leaders" are supposed to do?

See here for the NSS articles re hospital Chaplains.
And next time you see one on the wards, ask him how he feels about being paid around twice as much as a nurse or three times as much as a cleaner, you know................people who make a real contribution to the welfare of the patients.

Oops! Cross posting with grammarKing.

Thought I'd just revive this thread instead of having a separate one for chaplains as Denis Cobell
hs just posted this on the NSS newsline.

From Denis Cobell:
Muriel Fraser suggests humanist chaplains may be paid £250 out of state funds. As a humanist chaplain to both my local Mayor, Hospital, & Armed Forces Humanist Association I have not received a single penny as fee, or expense, nor been offered any money. In discussion with other humanist chaplains, I can confirm that this statement is totally untrue.

[Gottard]

According to Radio 4 The Daily Mail thinks there is a danger the trip may be cancelled because of the offence caused to the poor old boy.

Excellent! Keep it up!

Hey No Nick! You have not any compassion for your Humanist friends and you look somewhat egoistic.
A papal visit to the UK would mean lesser (albeit too short) a presence in Rome; don't you think we should all contribute to bear the boulder?!
P.S.: as a defender of the holy sepulchre I believe his most privileged (appropriate) residence should be Jerusalem

[Nick]

P.S.: as a defender of the holy sepulchre I believe his most privileged (appropriate) residence should be Jerusalem

I can think of a way of placing him even nearer to his god. Straight through the Pearly Gates




For the benefit of any spying bastards, intent on repressing our civil liberties, that is not a statement of intent nor an incitement to my fellow TH'ers. Sadly, I feel the need to state that plainly. Meanwhile, I'll just sit here and watch Ratzo promote the decimation of the earth.......

[Dave B]

Meanwhile, I'll just sit here and watch Ratzo promote the decimation of the earth.......

Nick, not sure if that is a ref to world climate issues but here is a, very much paraphrased, true story.

A reporter had an interview with the Vatican minister for the environment, who was soon to jet off to a conference on the church's response to climate issues. The reporter said something about flying in a private jet to such a conference was hardly a good thing for one who said that he was concerned. That this did not strengthen the RCC's reputation on the issue of carbon reduction.

The minister replied that since the Vatican did not own the plane he would be hiring it was not the Vatican's fault that it produced pollutants.

Doh!

[Nick]

Please, Dave, save your head from further punishment! I entirely share you view. I wasn't thinking directly of climate change specifically, but the old lie, "God will provide" is surely a crock of shit, well past it's sell-by date.

[Alan C.]

An excellent article by Johann Hari.
The slow, whiny death of British Christianity Well worth two or three minutes of your time.

[Gottard]

[Alan C.]

From the NSS today. My bold.

East Sussex County Council is proposing to cut transport subsidies for children attending faith schools from January next year – saving it £500,000 annually. And West Lancashire County Council has given notice that it intends to severely curtail its denominational school transport subsidies in order to save £2m a year.

As soon as the cuts were announced, those with vested interest in keeping this religious privilege launched protests to save it. Baroness Cumberlege, who has joined the East Sussex campaign to retain the subsidies, said that “This county council policy discriminates against those with religious beliefs, damages good schools, disadvantages poorer children and, despite the need to make savings, must be rejected.”

Labour MP for West Lancashire, Rosie Cooper, described the cuts as a “stealth faith tax”, completely forgetting that those who don’t go to “faith schools” have to pay this tax even though they can’t benefit from it. Even if they go to the same school, children who are not baptised into the religion of that school still have to pay their own transport costs while baptised children do not.

A spokesperson from East Sussex County Council has confirmed that the consultation process has ended and that a full report on all the responses was being prepared ahead of the lead member meeting, which will take place on 18 October.

Fri, 15 Oct 2010

They don't do bloody irony do they?

[Gottard]

Even if they go to the same school, children who are not baptised into the religion of that school still have to pay their own transport costs while baptised children do not.

They don't do bloody irony do they?

I thought things in Italy were dire but ...reading those baptised don't pay... is unbelievable to me; I will read this mail again later to make certain that I am in command of my faculties.
Also, hearing about "compulsory daily prayers" in state school ...there would be a revolution in Italy!
Italian citizen (although mostly Catholic) must be on active alert 24h/7d given that Vatican is inside the Country.

[grammar king]

I have to say I don't quite believe that part about unbaptised kids in the same school not getting the same benefit. The LEA where I went to school (Wirral, Merseyside) has a similar bus pass scheme for Catholic schools but it's for anyone going to the school. I've never heard of any such blatantly discriminatory scheme.

[grammar king]

I emailed Terry Sanderson this afternoon and he got back to me whilst I was at work. It seems that the claim, as disgusting as it sounds, is true, and that in some LEA's, unbaptised children at Catholic school do not get the same subsidies as so-called 'Catholic children', even if they're at the same school. See here, here and here, for example.

I'll now be contacting my local council to see if that's the case there too. It's a situation that needs rectifying immediately, and hopefully the budget cuts, if nothing else, will finally push it out.

[jaywhat]

Low rates for religious organisations is in the news (Guardian) with Eric Pickles saying that councils should not reduce rates for property belonging to the Church of Scientology.
Could this not be good news as logic (ha! ha!) would have it applying to all religious buildings.

[Alan H]

Bishops fight to save NHS chaplains

Leading bishops led calls to defend hospital chaplains in the face of a campaign to exclude religious influence from the National Health Service.

[lewist]

They probably get it but don't want to admit that this is not about having chaplains but rather about who pays for them. If the C of E bishops believe so strongly in having this sort of thing, why are they not paying the bill so their adherents can have it? Perhaps the C of S could be a role model here and set an example as the 'church of state' to their pals in England.

[Alan C.]

Lewis
They probably get it but don't want to admit that this is not about having chaplains but rather about who pays for them.

Lying for Jesus, Christians break the "Don't bear false witness" Commandment all the time, so no surprise there.