To all those who insult Islam....

[Maria Mac]

Click here for this great wee vid from the British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

It's going to be a heavy day of Islam-related demos in Central London tomorrow, with the nutjobs of Al-Muharijoun/Islam4Uk staging a march for Sharia and, at the last count, three separate counter-demonstrations: One from the crowd in the video, another from the nationalist EDL and yet another from a bunch of loony Trots who are opposing all three of the other groups! They don't like the muslims for secular democracy, apparently, because

in addition to failing to mention the English Defence League, essentially waves the Union Jack and endorses the British legal, political and social status quo. We do not believe that bourgeois liberalism can effectively challenge the growth of either Islamism or fascism, both of which feed off the social decay and despair of British society today.

[Gurdur]

Click here for this great wee vid from the British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

It's going to be a heavy day of Islam-related demos in Central London tomorrow, with the nutjobs of Al-Muharijoun/Islam4Uk staging a march for Sharia and, at the last count, three separate counter-demonstrations: One from the crowd in the video, another from the nationalist EDL and yet another from a bunch of loony Trots who are opposing all three of the other groups! They don't like the muslims for secular democracy, apparently, because

in addition to failing to mention the English Defence League, essentially waves the Union Jack and endorses the British legal, political and social status quo. We do not believe that bourgeois liberalism can effectively challenge the growth of either Islamism or fascism, both of which feed off the social decay and despair of British society today.

Anyone we know going to this? I would appreciate a first-hand account of how the whole thing goes from anyone who can be trusted, and will publicise it.

As for the Trots, they never accomplished one goddam thing in over 70 years (unless you want to include when they turned neocon and lied in order to invade Iraq the second time). Utter dismal failures. Hmmm hmmm, I wonder why Christopher Hitchens comes to mind?

[Maria Mac]

Although we are at a conference today, I may take a couple of hours out to see what I can see. The latest is that the March for Sharia has been cancelled and they are instead holding a rally in an "undisclosed location".

[Maria Mac]

I was there for one o'clock and happily joined in with the secular democracy bunch and stood holding one of their notices for half an hour. There were about 40 EDL members swathed in the St. George's flag. They seemed quite amicable though at times looked a bit envious of the attention we were getting. There were plenty of photographers and camera crews recording everything.

Nobody knows what happened to the March4Sharia except that it wasn't taking place and had changed instead to a secret rally somewhere. Naturally this was considered to be fantastic news.

The Trots were nowhere to be seen and I suspect their proposed protest did not have proper planning permission and wasn't allowed to go ahead.

The biggest and best protest of the day came from hundreds of motor cyclists protesting about a new bike parking charge in Central London. It was stunning to watch so many of them ride through Picadilly all together.

[getreal]

What a sight those bikes must have been, Maria!!

Love the bears in front.

[Marian]

Too bad we couldn't have had those bike guys wearing our signs!

[Maria Mac]

That would have been superb!

I've just blogged about the protests on Saturday (except for the bike one).

No Sharia here, then?

[getreal]

Sometimes I almost wish I lived in London.

I don't understand why truly moderate moslems can't organise themselves against the Islamist nutters. They must take control of the madmen who purport to be the source of true Islam. They are in the best position to get these dangerous idiots out of any position of authority. I really don't understand why they are not acting to do this.

The British government is also to blame for failing to recognise this threat and acting to control these poisonous purveyors of hate.

[Maria Mac]

Here's a two min vid of our protest. You can see me clearly 44 seconds in. Doesn't the camera add years/pounds/lots of grey hairs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITq7rLG64Lc

[Marian]

Sometimes I almost wish I lived in London.

I don't understand why truly moderate moslems can't organise themselves against the Islamist nutters. They must take control of the madmen who purport to be the source of true Islam. They are in the best position to get these dangerous idiots out of any position of authority. I really don't understand why they are not acting to do this.

The British government is also to blame for failing to recognise this threat and acting to control these poisonous purveyors of hate.

You raise some good points here. I think the moderate muslims may be akin to the moderate christians in the US who do nothing regarding their literalist counterparts; perhaps it falls under the umbrella of toleration or freedom of speech?

Personally, I agree that fanatics are out of hand and something needs to be done. I just struggle with what that ought to look like exactly. How does a society say they have freedom of religion and freedom of speech and yet curtail these freedoms? Where does the line get drawn between the truly moderate and the extremists?


Maria, you look like your avatar. You're too hard on yourself!

[getreal]

Where does the line get drawn between the truly moderate and the extremists?

I think you have pretty much gone over the line when you argue that anyone not complying with your particular belief system is of less value.

Maria, were you wearing a coral coloured scarf?

[Maria Mac]

Tx, Marian. No, getreal, I'm wearing no scarf. I'm holding a notice saying 'Debate those who insult Islam' and I can be seen listening in on an interview with the group's spokesman at about 0.42-45.

By the way, I think the majority there were moderate Muslims. Seems they are beginning to take a stand.

[Gottard]

...but I'm asking myself: shouldn't the Brit. Government be the one to protect Secularism? I see some oddity in this Gov. stance: refusing a Dutch activist to enter the Country on the pretence "to avoid turmoil" but letting Muslim extremists parade with their Shariah-Law-for-Britain.

[Lifelinking]

Wilders may now enter the UK after appealing to a tribunal http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8308814.stm

FTR I find much of what he says to be poorly thought out or downright wrong. But hey, if that was a reason to restrict freedom ...

[Alan C.]

Lifelinking
I find much of what he says to be poorly thought out or downright wrong. But hey, if that was a reason to restrict freedom ...

You could be talking about the homophobic, mysogynistic, paedophile protector ratslinger there,
Oh how I hope there are demonstrations against his planned visit here next year, I will do my damndest to participate wherever it may be.

peneasy
I see some oddity in this Gov. stance: refusing a Dutch activist to enter the Country on the pretence "to avoid turmoil" but letting Muslim extremists parade with their Shariah-Law-for-Britain.

I agree with you completely Elio, just why the muzzies are allowed to parade with banners calling for the death of all kafirs is beyond me.
Fortunately as can be seen from last weekends events, the "modeate" Muslims seem to be waking up at last.

[Marian]

You could be talking about the homophobic, mysogynistic, paedophile protector ratslinger there,
Oh how I hope there are demonstrations against his planned visit here next year, I will do my damndest to participate wherever it may be.

Don't forget, he was ex-Hitler Youth too.

... just why the muzzies are allowed to parade with banners calling for the death of all kafirs is beyond me.
Fortunately as can be seen from last weekends events, the "modeate" Muslims seem to be waking up at last.

Do you think the extremists are allowed to parade because of political correctness or because of a distorted sense of tolerance?

[getreal]

I'd go with "a distorted sense of tolerance". We have spent years accommodating people with extremist views in the mistaken belief that we were supporting multi culturalism.

This stuff is absolutly nothing to do with culture.

[Gottard]

Do you think the extremists are allowed to parade because of political correctness or because of a distorted sense of tolerance?

Neither! To me, seen from outside Britain, it's just Government's weakness, i.e. inability to guarantee social equilibrium.

[Lifelinking]

So tolerance is OK, as long as it is extended to people that you agree with? And extending tolerance to others is a sign of weak government?

Humanist oligarchy anyone?

[Marian]

So tolerance is OK, as long as it is extended to people that you agree with? And extending tolerance to others is a sign of weak government?

Humanist oligarchy anyone?

You mean the whole world doesn't bow down to me? Uh oh, I see my dictatorship slipping away...

Doesn't it depend on whom you extend tolerance to? I don't have an issue with people believing in other things except when it comes to them wanting to take my life. I think the buck has to stop somewhere and that seems like a good place...maybe I'm biased.
If someone is carrying a sign that says, "Death to kafirs", I think that says a little bit about what they value... or not.
Imo, this is hate. I've been threatened with death before, it's not a pretty spot to be in. In fact, it's terrifying so why should people be allowed to spew this hatred publically?

Didn't the British government let in several Taliban fighters some years ago? Is that really a great idea? I don't know, maybe these guys took an oath of peace or something but what is more likely is that the leaders they belonged to saw an opportunity to bring the struggle to the UK and jumped on it. Call me paranoid but extremists have a different mind-set than the average person,imo