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Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Compassionist
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Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#1 Post by Compassionist » August 19th, 2009, 4:18 am

:)

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jaywhat
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#2 Post by jaywhat » August 19th, 2009, 5:19 am

These lists are surely impressive.

Anyone looking for a good cause, IMO, might look at the NSS.

Hundovir
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#3 Post by Hundovir » August 19th, 2009, 7:50 am

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets... But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret." (Matthew 6:1-4)

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getreal
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#4 Post by getreal » August 19th, 2009, 9:49 am

Can't believe you're quoting scripture, Hundovir :laughter:

I always thought that "charity" as in the new testament, actually meant love. I was told that at church, so it must be true!

I used to be of the opinion that in an ideal world there would be no need for charities as needs would be identified and met by statutory organisations.

I am no longer of that opinion and think there will always be the need for grass roots voluntary organisations. They score over statutory services by being closer to the "need", they are more flexable and the people who actually use the services have a greater say in how they are delivered (or, that should be the case!).

I do feel a deep sense of shame when Gt Ormond St. have to advertise for money. Healthcare is a universal need and should be provided by statutory services.

I have actually just resigned from the committee of a local charity-to-be.
That'a a few months of my life I'm never going to get back!
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#5 Post by Compassionist » August 19th, 2009, 7:27 pm

:smile:

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#6 Post by Compassionist » August 19th, 2009, 7:43 pm

jaywhat wrote:These lists are surely impressive.

Anyone looking for a good cause, IMO, might look at the NSS.
I didn't list them to impress anyone. Please let that be clarified once and for all. It troubles me that I have not been able to prevent all suffering. 3 billion people live on less than £1 a day - my charitable activities are insignificant. I still haven't been able to make poverty history despite trying since my first donation as a toddler. If I were omnipotent, I would have prevented all suffering and made an infinite number of omnipotent beings to share infinity with. I am a mere prisoner of causality. If an electron had my genes, environments (physical), nutrients and experiences it would not be an electron, it would have been me (may be I used to be an electron) typing these words right here, right now. Causality rules and compassion soothes.

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getreal
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#7 Post by getreal » August 19th, 2009, 7:54 pm

Compassionist wrote:
I didn't list them to impress anyone. Please let that be clarified once and for all. It troubles me that I have not been able to prevent all suffering. 3 billion people live on less than £1 a day - my charitable activities are insignificant. I still haven't been able to make poverty history despite trying since my first donation as a toddler. If I were omnipotent, I would have prevented all suffering and made an infinite number of omnipotent beings to share infinity with. I am a mere prisoner of causality. If an electron had my genes, environments (physical), nutrients and experiences it would not be an electron, it would have been me (may be I used to be an electron) typing these words right here, right now. Causality rules and compassion soothes.
It's sad that there is great suffering in the world, but you are not responsible for that, compassionist. It's impossible for one person to eradicate all suffering. We can all do our bit and that's all we can do. A bit.

I count my lucky stars every day that I have been born at this time, in this hemisphere and in this country. Others are not as lucky as me, but I don't feel guilty about that because I have had no control over that.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#8 Post by Compassionist » August 19th, 2009, 7:59 pm

:)

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getreal
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#9 Post by getreal » August 19th, 2009, 8:06 pm

No apology needed :smile:

When I have something on my mind that's getting me down I find it colours my view on everything else.

I find it easy to feel overwhelmed by the pain and suffering in the world and the only way I can cope is by focussing on one thing I feel I may be able to give a little support to and restricting my exposure much of the rest.
Perhaps that's a cop out, but it works for me.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Hundovir
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#10 Post by Hundovir » August 19th, 2009, 9:41 pm

Compassionist wrote:Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works."
Well, there ya go, you can read anything into the Bible! :smile:
I didn't announce my charitable activities out of pride or to show off. I announced it because I want to know if charity is the greatest.
Well, fair dos, but it seems a bit of an extravagant way of asking a simple question.
You have not answered my question. Is the Bible correct in saying that charity is the greatest,
The word used is Greek - αγαπε - pronounced agapay. This was translated to "caritas" in Latin versions of the New Testament. Neither 'αγαπε' nor 'caritas' mean the same as our modern word 'charity'. They mean 'love' in the sense of unconditional love.

The Bible quotation is from the first letter to the Corinthians chapter 13:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
The author is saying that love is greater than faith and hope. Do I agree? I don't know. But it's quite an inspirational passage.

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getreal
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#11 Post by getreal » August 19th, 2009, 9:48 pm

My bible class teacher was right, then!

Charity, in this context does mean love.

"Unconditional love" is a difficult thing to give (and possibly a difficult thing to recieve). I think the only experience I have of that is the love you can feel for your child.
Or your dog :D
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#12 Post by Compassionist » August 20th, 2009, 4:47 am

:smile:

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#13 Post by Compassionist » August 20th, 2009, 5:20 am

:)

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getreal
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#14 Post by getreal » August 20th, 2009, 12:20 pm

Those who have not been donating as much as me and volunteering as much as me are much richer than me and have a much higher standard of living. It is obvious that the selfish prosper and the selfless perish.
I would argue that you were, in fact, richer in the important things in life.
I feel I can sleep at night in the knowledge that I have, at least, tried to help others less fortunate.

There are (and have been ) some extremely philanthropic people in the world.

I really admire what Bill Gates is doing for malaria. A totally preventable and treatable disease, which unfortunatly is not popular amoungst "celebs" to support.

I suppose it's not considered "sexy" enough.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Hundovir
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#15 Post by Hundovir » August 20th, 2009, 10:29 pm

[mode="theology"]
Compassionist wrote:If charity is the greatest, why isn't God charitable? Why didn't God simply excuse Adam and Eve, his imperfect creations, instead of unleasing all these suffering?
I think you'll find that Christian theodicy is a bit more complicated than that.
Does God practice 1 Corinthians 13:4 - 13? Has God practised what it allegedly preaches?
Well of course He does, that is what His self-sacrifice on the cross was all about!
[/mode]
All evidence indicates that life is a meritocratic rat race. If everyone was charitable i.e. self-sacrificial, then no one would be here to get on with the rat race of survival and reproduction. Those who have not been donating as much as me and volunteering as much as me are much richer than me and have a much higher standard of living. It is obvious that the selfish prosper and the selfless perish.
What has that to do with what is right and wrong?

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#16 Post by Compassionist » August 21st, 2009, 2:47 am

:)

Compassionist
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#17 Post by Compassionist » August 21st, 2009, 2:58 am

:)

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Alan H
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#18 Post by Alan H » August 21st, 2009, 2:42 pm

I think this is the greatest work of charity an atheist could do for a christian:

Atheists - looking after pets in a post-apocalyptic world
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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gcb01
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#19 Post by gcb01 » August 21st, 2009, 5:15 pm

I think, perhaps in a rather simplistic way, that hope is the greatest as without hope things are unlikely to improve.
Regards

Campbell

Hundovir
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Re: Faith, hope & charity. Is charity the greatest?

#20 Post by Hundovir » August 21st, 2009, 5:22 pm

gcb01 wrote:I think, perhaps in a rather simplistic way, that hope is the greatest as without hope things are unlikely to improve.
"I will despair, and be at enmity
With cozening hope: he is a flatterer,
A parasite, a keeper back of death,
Who gently would dissolve the bands of life,
Which false hope lingers in extremity."

Shakespeare, 'Richard II'

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