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The Pope & Condoms

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Nick
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The Pope & Condoms

#1 Post by Nick » March 19th, 2009, 5:10 pm

I am utterly appalled by the Pope's comments on condom use in Africa. The BHA have not only condemned his comments...

http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/243

...but have written to the Government asking them to condemn them too.

http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/245

It is for things such as this that I support the BHA. IMO the Pope should be arrested for crimes against humanity and banned from the UK as likely to cause religious hatred (even if it is only against his own religion...)

It will be interesting to see how the government reply.

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Alan C.
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#2 Post by Alan C. » March 19th, 2009, 6:00 pm

Silly old fool just keeps on sticking his foot in his mouth at every turn, even devout Catholics are sick of him, this one wants him impeached.
I am a Catholic and the idea that such a man is God's spokesperson on earth is absurd to me.
The thing that annoys me is, Catholics in the West freely use contraception and he knows it, he still let Tony Blair join the club even after Cherie admitted that they use contraception,
Yet he still continues to terrify uneducated and illiterate people with threats of hellfire and damnation.
On the upside, every time he makes a gaffe Catholisism loses some more fence sitters.

I think I'll email Ruth Kelly, see what she thinks.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

MedMae
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#3 Post by MedMae » March 20th, 2009, 9:27 am

Alan C. wrote: Yet he still continues to terrify uneducated and illiterate people with threats of hellfire and damnation.
This is the modus operandi of most religions isn't it? Religious orgainisations can only survive when they can exploit ignorance and lazyness.
Complexity is just simplicity multiplied to a point which exceeds a particular level of comprehension. - Theowarner

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jaywhat
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#4 Post by jaywhat » March 20th, 2009, 10:06 am

I think I'll email Ruth Kelly, see what she thinks. ,says Alan C.

I thought she used a chain round her leg.

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Alan H
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#5 Post by Alan H » March 20th, 2009, 10:50 am

jaywhat wrote:I think I'll email Ruth Kelly, see what she thinks. ,says Alan C.

I thought she used a chain round her leg.
What? In place of a condom?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

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Alan C.
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#6 Post by Alan C. » March 20th, 2009, 11:14 am

A spiky chain round the thigh would encourage abstinence, (it would for me anyway) so no need for a condom.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Gottard
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#7 Post by Gottard » March 20th, 2009, 3:56 pm

.....and big silence on the official TV in Italy at the news :angry:
As interviewed Berlusconi's answer was: "anyone thinks about his own business" and rode away in his car. :headbang:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Alan C.
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#8 Post by Alan C. » March 21st, 2009, 4:05 pm

Excellent cartoon from the Times, and Murphy O'Connors whinging letter about it.
Image
Sir, I was appalled at the tasteless cartoon depicting Pope Benedict XVI. No newspaper should show such disrespect to a person who is held in high esteem by a large proportion of Christians in the world. To pillory the Pope in this way is totally unacceptable. As to what Pope Benedict said, it would be wiser for people to look at the issues that he was raising in his remarks. It is certainly true that the widespread distribution of condoms can run the risk of greater promiscuity and that the best way to combat the Aids epidemic is by healthcare, education and fidelity in married life. Even if people do not accept the Church’s teaching in this matter, it is a well-known fact that the greatest contribution to health care for those living with Aids in Africa is given by the Catholic Church.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor

Archbishop of Westminster
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

jdc
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#9 Post by jdc » March 21st, 2009, 9:52 pm

I think it's pretty disgusting to make comments to the effect that condoms make things worse.

[I remember Cardinal Trujillo managed to include a conspiracy theory about condoms and ARVs being impregnated with HIV "to kill off Africans": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7014335.stm]
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Gottard
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#10 Post by Gottard » March 22nd, 2009, 11:24 am

In my opinion the authority of UNESCO, whose purpose is to promote international collaboration through education, science, and culture, should be better understood and publicised among all governments (and the IHEU) with the precise aim to counteract religious and superstitious thought. The vatican position and teaching is not balanced by an equivalent rational and scientific body, such as UNESCO.
I wrote a mail to them yesterday:

UNESCO
To Mr. Boyan Radoykov
Programme Specialist
Information Society Division - Universal Access and Preservation Section (CI/INF/UAP)

Dear Mr. Radoykov,
will UNESCO do something to counteract the recent pope speech against the use of condoms?
The film ‘Love and Relationships’: Film festival in Cambodia addressing HIV prevention goes in the right direction but Africa needs help just as much and it is made up of many Countries!
Thanks for helping.

Shall wait for an answer.
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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jorell
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#11 Post by jorell » March 24th, 2009, 6:37 am

Another attempt by the Catholic Church to infect the human race in one way or another.

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Paolo
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#12 Post by Paolo » March 24th, 2009, 10:42 am

jorell wrote:Another attempt by the Catholic Church to infect the human race in one way or another.
Yeah, the conversion rate is probably much higher when people are dying...

(BTW, welcome Jorell)

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jorell
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#13 Post by jorell » March 24th, 2009, 12:38 pm

Thanks for the welcome Paolo.

This is slightly oblique to the topic but I happened to watch the rantings of the Catholic spokes person/creature, Joanna Bogel, on Channel 4 the other week agreeing with the Pope that condoms contributed to the spread of AIDS (?). I had the misfortune to work with her a few years ago. The only thing bigger than her mouth is her ego and the only thing smaller than her mind are her views. I appreciate the need to put across both sides of an argument during any televised debate but her technique of shouting over and trying to belittle anyone with an opposing view is astonishing . . . Which probably makes her an ideal representative of the Catholic Church.

It’s just a pity her father never wore a condom.

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Alan H
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#14 Post by Alan H » March 27th, 2009, 2:31 pm

In today's Telegraph:
********************************************************************************
Lancet says Pope distorting condom facts - Europe, World - The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 55647.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lancet says Pope distorting condom facts

Reuters

Friday, 27 March 2009

A prestigious medical journal today accused Pope Benedict of distorting scientific evidence to promote Catholic doctrine by saying that condoms increase the spread of Aids.

The Lancet in an editorial called on the Pope to retract the comments made last week, saying anything less would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates fighting to contain the disease.

"When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record," the editorial said.

"By saying that condoms exacerbate the problem of HIV/Aids, the Pope has publicly distorted scientific evidence to promote Catholic doctrine on the issue."

During his first visit to Africa, the Pope told reporters that Aids is a problem that "cannot be overcome by the distribution of condoms; on the contrary, they increase it."

The comment ignited a firestorm of criticism from health officials, activists and politicians who criticised that view as unrealistic, unscientific and dangerous.

The Church teaches that fidelity within heterosexual marriage and abstinence are the best ways to stop Aids. The Vatican also says condoms can lead to risky behaviour but many contest that view.

Health experts say there is no scientific evidence showing that condom use spurs people to take more sexual risks and in fact studies show that condom use reduces the risk of acquiring HIV infection.

The Aids virus infects an estimated 33 million people globally, mostly in sub-Saharan Africa, and has killed 25 million. There is no cure.

[Retrieved: Fri Mar 27 2009 14:29:12 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#15 Post by Alan H » March 27th, 2009, 4:26 pm

The Lancet article said:
Redemption for the Pope?

The Vatican felt the heat from an unprecedented amount of international condemnation last week after Pope Benedict XVI made an outrageous and wildly inaccurate statement about HIV/AIDS. On his first visit to Africa, the Pope told journalists that the continent’s fight against the disease is a problem that “cannot be overcome by the distribution of condoms: on the contrary, they increase it”. The Catholic Church’s ethical opposition to birth control and support of marital fidelity and abstinence in HIV prevention is well known. But, by saying that condoms exacerbate the problem of HIV/AIDS, the Pope has publicly distorted scientific evidence to promote Catholic doctrine on this issue. The international community was quick to condemn the comment. The governments of Germany, France, and Belgium released statements criticising the Pope’s views. Julio Montaner, president of the International AIDS Society, called the comment “irresponsible and dangerous”. UNAIDS, the UN Population Fund, and WHO released an updated position statement on HIV prevention and condoms, which said that “the male latex condom is the single, most efficient, available technology to reduce the sexual transmission of HIV”. Amidst the fury, even the Vatican tried to alter the pontiff’s wording. On the Holy See’s website, the Vatican’s head of media, Father Federico Lombari, quoted the Pope as having said that there was a “risk that condoms…might increase the problem”. Whether the Pope’s error was due to ignorance or a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology is unclear. But the comment still stands and the Vatican’s attempts to tweak the Pope’s words, further tampering with the truth, is not the way forward. When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record. Anything less from Pope Benedict would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates, including many thousands of Catholics, who work tirelessly to try and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS worldwide.

The Lancet http://www.thelancet.com Vol 373 March 28, 2009
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#16 Post by Alan C. » March 28th, 2009, 6:29 pm

Thousands have pledged to send the pontiff millions of condoms to protest the controversial comment he made to journalists as he flew to Cameroon last week. :laughter:
Facebook users wage condom campaign against Pope
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#17 Post by Alan H » March 28th, 2009, 11:40 pm

Looks like criticism of the pope is getting to them...
********************************************************************************
ZENIT - Open Season on the Pope
http://www.zenit.org/article-25507?l=english
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Open Season on the Pope

A response to: Cardinal: Criticisms of Pope Have Gone Too Far

I am much consoled at the upsurge in verbal support for the Holy Father by many bishops, especially by Cardinal Bagnasco, president of CEI, in your article yesterday. It distresses so many of our faithful that the Successor of St. Peter is daily being marginalized, upbraided and ridiculed in the world's press. Is there any way in which ordinary faithful Catholics can express their profound solidarity with the Pope also?

It strikes me that to insult the Holy Father is open season even for Catholics. He needs our prayerful respect and support more than ever for all he is trying to do for the propagation and consolidation of the Faith.

Yours sincerely
(Monsignor) Stephen Robson
Chancellor
Archdiocese of Saint Andrews and Edinburgh
Scotland, UK

[Retrieved: Sat Mar 28 2009 23:38:47 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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grammar king
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#18 Post by grammar king » March 29th, 2009, 8:24 pm

Maybe as (still technically) a Catholic living within his Archdiocese, I should send this Stephen Robson prat a letter.

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Alan H
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#19 Post by Alan H » March 29th, 2009, 10:40 pm

Good idea.

I think "the propagation and consolidation of the Faith" is a very telling phrase...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Gottard
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Re: The Pope & Condoms

#20 Post by Gottard » April 3rd, 2009, 3:48 pm

Today: The latest from a cardinal answering to a criticism for "the Vatican interfering in the Italian politics"

"The church has anthropologic competence and is free to give their advice"

He did not qualify this "competence" :headbang:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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