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End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

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Alan H
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End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#1 Post by Alan H » May 1st, 2014, 11:11 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#2 Post by Dave B » May 1st, 2014, 11:37 am

Signed
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Altfish
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#3 Post by Altfish » May 1st, 2014, 12:28 pm

Dave B wrote:Signed
ditto

Nick
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#4 Post by Nick » May 1st, 2014, 3:33 pm

Altfish wrote:
Dave B wrote:Signed
ditto
Me too.

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Tetenterre
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#5 Post by Tetenterre » May 1st, 2014, 3:44 pm

+1
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

Compassionist
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#6 Post by Compassionist » May 1st, 2014, 4:35 pm

Signed. Thank you for bringing this petition to our attention.

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getreal
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#7 Post by getreal » May 1st, 2014, 6:50 pm

Just signed this when it appeared on my FB page.

It would appear that a lot of meat sold in supermarkets is from halal slaughter. It is not labeled as such, so unless you look at the code and know which codes are for which slaughterhouse and which slaughterhouse is halal, there appears to be no easy way of knowing if the meat you buy has been slaughtered in this way.

I'm assuming meat from your local butcher is easier to trace and I intend to ask at my local butcher about this issue. I think perhaps, as there are less Muslims in Scotland, it may not be so common.

But isn't kosher meat slaughtered in the same way?
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#8 Post by Dave B » May 1st, 2014, 7:34 pm

There seems to be a slight paradox here if it is true that most meat on sale in supermarkets its halal. Why?

Is the halal market so large in the UK that it is worth it? If the meat is not marked halal or kosher then Muslims or Jews are not allowed to purchase or eat it. If the market is that large why are the supermarkets not cashing in by making sure their meat is legal for these people? I cannot see Tescos missing out on that and would have halal signs all over the relevant shelves!

The supermarkets would have to make sure there was no possibility at all that halal products could be contaminated by forbidden produce. That would mean completely separated storage facilities and totally different handling and display equipment and rigid cleaning procedures. The logistics would cost a lot of money, possibly more than the market is worth.

I signed because I believe that the animals suffer more than those who consume halal and kosher meats claim.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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getreal
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#9 Post by getreal » May 1st, 2014, 10:27 pm

I understand your logic, Dave, but according to what I have read online it seems to be the case.

Wasn't M&S the subject of similar controversy when it emerged that most of their chicken was halal, though not obviously marked as such?

Perhaps the big retailers are aware that more people would not buy the produce if they thought it was halal/kosher slaughtered, but that those in search of this type of meat would know the codes to look for?
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Alan C.
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#10 Post by Alan C. » May 2nd, 2014, 9:20 pm

Dave B wrote:There seems to be a slight paradox here if it is true that most meat on sale in supermarkets its halal. Why?

Is the halal market so large in the UK that it is worth it? If the meat is not marked halal or kosher then Muslims or Jews are not allowed to purchase or eat it. If the market is that large why are the supermarkets not cashing in by making sure their meat is legal for these people? I cannot see Tescos missing out on that and would have halal signs all over the relevant shelves!

The supermarkets would have to make sure there was no possibility at all that halal products could be contaminated by forbidden produce. That would mean completely separated storage facilities and totally different handling and display equipment and rigid cleaning procedures. The logistics would cost a lot of money, possibly more than the market is worth.

I signed because I believe that the animals suffer more than those who consume halal and kosher meats claim.
Because without folk buying it unwittingly it wouldn't be a viable operation for the (minority) muslims and jews.
Get your meat from a butcher and know its provenance.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#11 Post by Dave B » May 2nd, 2014, 10:14 pm

Get your meat from a butcher and know its provenance.
The only real chance of that is the small range of local stuff sold in the Friday Farmers' Market. We do have two delis (same company) that sell many kinds of meats but not "roasting joints", mainly English sausages (several great flavours), ham, bacon, Bath chaps, chitterlings etc.

There are halal butchers in the "international" quarter of the city and every fast food place, barring KFC and MacD's, has a halal sign in the window.

I do miss the two old ones who sold game & locally caught salmon in season! One sold superbly tasty and tender Welsh lamb shanks . . .
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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getreal
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#12 Post by getreal » May 3rd, 2014, 10:59 pm

There isn't a standard family butcher in Your town Dave?
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#13 Post by Dave B » May 4th, 2014, 9:44 am

getreal wrote:There isn't a standard family butcher in Your town Dave?
Not unless there is one in one of the suburbs that I have never been (been to most). Lots of supermarkets: eight Tescos (including "Express" ones), two Asdas, two Morrisons, two Sainsbury's, two Lidls, a Co-op, an Iceland and an Aldi - 19 supermarket type stores for a city with a population of possibly 130,000.

There are the two family run delis and I did forget the butcher in the indoor market that does not seem to open every day. But no traditional butchers that left I have seen. The last one changed to making (superb) meat pies but closed less than a year later.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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getreal
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#14 Post by getreal » May 4th, 2014, 8:06 pm

That's such a shame. Our local town has a population of only 6500 and we have 2 independant butchers.

One is a long established family butcher and the other only opened 2 years ago and is an outlet for a local farm. They also make various types of meat pies and sell meat from other farms. They are a bit more specialist and can get venison and rare breed meat occasionally. I like the fact that some of the meat they sell is their own and can be seen in the fields.

So butchers must be doing ok here.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Tetenterre
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#15 Post by Tetenterre » May 6th, 2014, 9:37 am

Similar here (apparently our population is 5,700). Two independent butchers, both of which are licensed for game. One of them is superb, but very slightly pricier. They also do useful things like dispatch and "dress" gone-off-lay chickens, ducks etc for local people.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Altfish
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#16 Post by Altfish » May 6th, 2014, 9:41 am

And here in Altrincham area too, there are butchers on the market and one in our village (Timperley) both seem to be doing well; always a big queue on a Saturday.
They will tell you where the meat has come from and give you a bone or two for the dog

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#17 Post by Dave B » May 6th, 2014, 9:52 am

I had also forgotten that there is organic and local meat available at the "Over Farm Market" (used to be "shop" but was so popular it grew like Topsy, superb veg.) But you need a car to get there even though it is only a mile from the city centre.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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jaywhat
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#18 Post by jaywhat » May 8th, 2014, 8:59 am

It's not how an animal dies, in my opinion, but how it lives. What is the point of living a bloody horrible life and then having a so-called humane death. I don't eat the poor buggers anyway.

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Altfish
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#19 Post by Altfish » May 8th, 2014, 9:05 am

jaywhat wrote:It's not how an animal dies, in my opinion, but how it lives. What is the point of living a bloody horrible life and then having a so-called humane death.
Agree, that is important, hence why we use the local butchers rather than a supermarket.

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Dave B
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Re: End non-stun slaughter to promote animal welfare

#20 Post by Dave B » May 8th, 2014, 9:16 am

Seems Tesco and M&S have now admitted they use NZ halal lamb without it being so labelled. But it is now claimed that 85% or so of this is stunned before the fatal cut.

Also claimed that both the Jewish and Muslim authorities claim that the meat should be labelled as halal. I suppose that this is to heir advantage as well as ours.

If it were all labelled that would be a test as to whether the larger store chains would find it worth having halal meat on their shelves. if people tended to boycott it. Since they are profit rather than service driven I would suggest they would insist.

As I think I said it is impossible to buy non-halal fried chicken in Gloucester unless KFC is such.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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