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Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#1 Post by Alan H » September 9th, 2008, 12:47 pm

In today's Scotsman:
********************************************************************************
Eating meat may halt onset of dementia, says study - The Scotsman
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/health? ... 38#3214640
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eating meat may halt onset of dementia, says study

Published Date: 09 September 2008
By Jane Kirby
A VITAMIN found in meat, fish and milk may help protect the brain as it ages, researchers said yesterday.
Vitamin B12 could help stop the brain shrinking – possibly preventing memory loss in older people and dementia.

A study of 107 people aged 61 to 87 found that those with lower vitamin B12 levels in their blood were six times more likely to experience brain shrinkage compared with those who had higher levels of the vitamin.

Anna Vogiatzoglou, from the department of physiology, anatomy and genetics at Oxford University, which led the study, said: "Many factors that affect brain health are thought to be out of our control.

"But this study suggests simply adjusting diets to consume more vitamin B12 through meat, fish, fortified cereals or milk may be something we can adjust to prevent brain shrinkage and so perhaps save our memory."

In the study, published in the journal Neurology, brain volume loss was measured every year for five years.

None of the guinea pigs was suffering memory loss or a vitamin B12 deficiency at the start of the study.

They were given yearly physical examinations, MRI scans, tests to check their cognitive and memory skills and blood tests to determine their varying levels of B12.

Dr Susanne Sorensen, head of research at the Alzheimer's Society, said that brain shrinkage was usually associated with the development of dementia.


1
drunken proffet,
Tassy 09/09/2008 00:49:39
Aye, and kangaroo steak puts a bounce in your step. A win win situation.
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2
Scullion,
Canada 09/09/2008 01:53:21
The WWC (Worldwide Cow Counsel) is refuting the results of these tests.
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3
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 09/09/2008 02:21:05

'AYE' RIGHT THEN!!

"Eating Meat" and get the 'Mad Cow Disease'

'Aye' we have heard it all before, the lies, and scandal's, from previous 'Health Ministers'!
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4
Guga II,
Rockall 09/09/2008 02:58:07
#3.

You'd better start eating more meat Charlie, before it's too late.
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5
Kate,
Zurich 09/09/2008 07:46:01
Ok so we should stop eating meat to save the planet from all the methane but we should start eating it to save ourselves from dementia! Tell me, who is the mad professor in this circus?
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6
Vincent-W,
09/09/2008 07:55:29
Perhaps the common sense solution is that we should consume a wide variety of different food and drink. Not one to excess - surely that would maximise the beneficial and minimize the deleterious.

Or is that too simple?
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7
Ken Wyles-Thenoux,
09/09/2008 11:13:21
Stop listening to the medical profession. I did when it transpired that several of the doctors who signed an open letter to Blair demanding the legalisation of Heroin then signed another one demanding a smoking ban.
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8
OldWife,
09/09/2008 11:41:53
At last they are making progress, meat and fat is needed for proper brain function along with high levels of cholesterol - basic physiology that doctors (mostly those who like to prescribe statins) have ignored for years. Dementia cases rose significantly in the few years after the statin fanatics started prescribing and they are still rising, now they can reverse the damage they have done by advising people to eat a diet with plenty of meat and good fats. Hoorah.
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9
zeno,
http://www.thinkhumanism.com 09/09/2008 12:41:35
"Vitamin B12 could help stop the brain shrinking"
"this study suggests simply adjusting diets to consume more vitamin B12"
"more vitamin B12 through meat, fish, fortified cereals or milk"

So the heading should really be:

More vitamin B12 may halt onset of dementia, says study

...not the misleading one the Scotsman came up with.

[Captured: 09 September 2008 12:45:37]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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LilacHamster
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#2 Post by LilacHamster » September 9th, 2008, 5:45 pm

I know I am biased as a vegan but I would hope that even the meat-eaters here will see that the heading for this article is showing a serious bias against vegetarianism and veganism.
The heading could equally have been "Eating Fortified Cereals and Yeast Extract May Halt Onset of Dementia" or even better, "Adequate Vitamin B12 Intake May Halt Onset of Dementia" but oh no someone just had to use this study to promote eating meat. I don't think the other possible headers would offend anyone other than someone who eats only meat and refuses to eat yeast extract or fortified cereals (I deliberately do not recommend Marmite because that would be advertising a particular brand and although some vegans recommend it, others I know state time and time again that there are alternatives from far more ethical companies than Unilever who are involved in vivisection).
I've got my Alpro soya milk in front of me, it is fortified with B12, you would need only 200ml to get the whole of the RDA of B12 according to the packet. It's also fortified with vitamin D2.
The heading was obviously designed to cause offence and mislead which could have so easily been avoided.

..and after writing that rant I see someone possibly you Alan, has made a partly similar comment at the end of the article in the comments section!

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Alan H
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#3 Post by Alan H » September 9th, 2008, 6:43 pm

LilacHamster wrote:..and after writing that rant I see someone possibly you Alan, has made a partly similar comment at the end of the article in the comments section!
:D Yes, that's me! I beat you to it!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#4 Post by Nick » September 9th, 2008, 7:43 pm

Hi there LilacHampster!

I quite agree that there could be more accurate headings, but hey! this is journalism, not a High Court judgement. They are just trying to be read, and at least you read it! I don't think they are seriously gunning for the vegans and certainly not "designed to cause offence". They would be just as likely to tell us meat-eaters we are going to an early grave, causing global warming and taking the food from the mouths of babes. Just look at all the articles cited on this forum... There is just as much sensationalism in veggieland. Should I be taking offence too?

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Alan C.
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#5 Post by Alan C. » September 9th, 2008, 8:13 pm

Well it was only on Sunday that we were being told.
UN says eat less meat to curb global warming.
Swings and roundabouts really. At this time of year we have at least 3 meat/fish free days a week, cos of the glut of veggies from the garden, cauliflower cheese and chips with beetroot today, vegetable soup with cheese and onion bread for tomorrow.
From the end of November onwards, we can either eat more (local) meat and fish to supplement the local carrots, tatties, and neeps, or buy other vegetables that have several thousand food miles, we think it's more ethical to buy what's available locally.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#6 Post by Alan H » September 10th, 2008, 1:03 pm

In today's Scotsman:
********************************************************************************
Dr Mark Porter: Medical Notes - The Scotsman
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/health? ... id=4474455
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr Mark Porter: Medical Notes

Scientists this week urged everyone to have one meat-free day a week to help tackle climate change. There are also clear health benefits for cutting down your intake of red meat
MEAT-eaters could make a significant contribution to the fight against global warming by having a meat-free day every week, according to one of the United Nations' leading experts on climate change.

Factors such as deforestation, methane producti
ADVERTISEMENT
on and the energy required to produce feed and fertilisers mean that the average meat-eater "produces" 1.5 tonnes more carbon dioxide a year than a vegetarian. But it is not just the climate that would benefit if more of us ate less meat.

Though a committed omnivore, I would be the first to admit that we now eat far more meat than the body requires or was designed to cope with. And we are paying the price through an increased propensity to conditions such as heart disease and bowel cancer.

I am not suggesting that everyone joins the three million or so people who already eschew animal products to varying degrees in the UK, but it wouldn't do us any harm to heed the advice of the chairman of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and cut back on the amount of meat we eat – particularly red meats, such as lamb and beef, which are higher in saturated fats than leaner meats such as poultry.

A meat-free diet is often deemed to be a poor substitute for the "real" thing, but we can survive perfectly well without meat as long as we remember there is more to turning veggie than simply cutting out animal products. A healthy vegetarian diet requires careful planning.

There is little doubt that a poor vegetarian diet is a recipe for deficiency, particularly in growing children and women facing the increasing demands of pregnancy and breast-feeding.

Professor Lindsay Allen, the director of the US Agricultural Research Service, recently warned such groups to avoid strict vegetarian diets after her research showed that meat-eating children grow more quickly and are more intelligent than their vegan peers.

At first glance, Professor Allen's findings do seem worrying and they conform to the stereotypical image of the wan veggie child. But on closer examination they are not applicable to most vegetarians living in the UK. Her research was carried out on African schoolchildren whose diets consisted of little more than starchy maize and bean-based foods – a much poorer quality diet than one would expect to find even among the strictest vegans in the UK. And her conclusions fly in the face of other research suggesting that vegetarian children brought up in developed countries on a carefully balanced diet often grow faster than those who eat meat.

Do it properly and the health benefits of cutting out meat are myriad. Studies over the years have shown that vegetarian children grow at similar rates to their meat-eating peers, with at least one study suggesting they are likely to be taller. And adult vegetarians are less likely to be overweight, or develop heart disease, bowel cancer, gallstones, diabetes and high blood pressure.

And as for the link with intelligence, recent research in the British Medical Journal, which followed 8,000 ten-year-olds over a 30-year period, found that those with the highest IQ were nearly one-and-a-half times more likely to be a vegetarian by their 40th birthday than their less intelligent peers.

So, is a vegetarian diet good for your brain? Or are bright people more likely to avoid animal-based products on health or moral grounds? It's unclear, but the findings are reassuring either way. So why not do your health (and your bank balance) a favour and cut back on the amount of meat your family consumes? Just make sure you think twice about what you are going to replace it with.

The Vegetarian Society provides a wealth of information on getting the most out of a vegetarian lifestyle including the Infant Diet Guide (for pregnant and breast-feeding women and those weaning young babies) and the ever popular Parent and Teenager Guide (for when your 14-year-old turns veggie). However, as most people are worried about eating enough protein after cutting out fish and meat, here are the best replacements:

• Nuts: hazels, brazils, almonds, cashews, walnuts, pine kernels.

• Seeds: sesame, pumpkin, sunflower, linseeds.

• Pulses: peas, beans, lentils. Grains/cereals: wheat (in bread, flour, pasta etc), barley, rye, oats, millet, maize (sweetcorn), rice.

• Soya products: tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, veggie burgers, soya milk.

• Dairy products: milk, cheese, yoghurt (butter and cream are very poor sources of protein), free-range eggs.

1
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 10/09/2008 01:53:26

FOR ABSOLUTE!!,...'GOODNESS SAKE'!

What did I tell you all yesterday,?

WHAT,?

NO ANSWERS,.. 'HUH'?

OK I WILL TELL YOU ALL AGAIN IN 5 SIMPLE WORDS!!

"RED MEAT IS A KILLER"!!!!!

The soo called,..'Health Benefits', Granny used to tell you all, is all 'Mince'!

NOW! Listen to Charles in Future!,....

He speaks Wisdom's!
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2
OldWife,
10/09/2008 10:08:40
Again, another doctor who doesn't understand the role of meat and fat in the body, particularly saturated fat. Cutting out sat fat in favour of polyunsaturated fats is just asking for disease. Unless eating meat is actually made illegal I will continue to eat it 3 times a day along with my dairy products. A vegetarian diet is too carb heavy and complete protein light and also not enough good fat. A recipe for heart disease, diabetes and cancer. Pass the steak while I celebrate my 74th birthday with no disease, no pills and the arteries of a 20 year old.

[Captured: 10 September 2008 13:02:44]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

clayto
Posts: 384
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 6:34 pm

Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#7 Post by clayto » September 10th, 2008, 5:39 pm

Misleading headlines and misleading introductions from commentators play a major part in the public misunderstanding of just about everything in the media. But 'all sides' in the various arguments are guilty, although we do have the added problem that much of the press is dominated by one side of the wider political divide, by right wing ideology and conservatism. Some newspapers are (much) worse than others. I used to teach Politics to journalists ----- it was more difficult to get them to grasp concepts of objectivity, balance (my favoured term), fairness ---- than it was with many other students who were studying Politics as an academic discipline rather than a tool of their trade.

It seems all we can do is what has been done here and draw attention to the more complete and accurate story ---- and its implications.

Chris
clayto

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Alan H
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#8 Post by Alan H » September 10th, 2008, 5:45 pm

clayto wrote:Misleading headlines and misleading introductions from commentators play a major part in the public misunderstanding of just about everything in the media.
Couldn't agree more!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

MedMae
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#9 Post by MedMae » September 10th, 2008, 6:01 pm

Alan H wrote:
clayto wrote:Misleading headlines and misleading introductions from commentators play a major part in the public misunderstanding of just about everything in the media.
Couldn't agree more!
Yes indeed. Especially in genetics. Where a lot of the scare stories sensationalised in newspapers have more to do with science fiction than science fact.
Complexity is just simplicity multiplied to a point which exceeds a particular level of comprehension. - Theowarner

gregory
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#10 Post by gregory » September 13th, 2008, 10:44 am

My doctor says you can get B12 from pulses although I do eat Marmite.

Good job this subject was investigated.

I don't know if you have ever read a book called Fresh by Mark McNay. If you don't tun vegetarian you may at least stop eating factory chicken from supermarkets. Its a fictional book set in Glasgow worth a read I would say. It doesn't emphasise the disadvantages of smoking enough for me although maybe people will pick this up just by reading the story.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#11 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » September 14th, 2008, 4:36 pm

gregory wrote:My doctor says you can get B12 from pulses although I do eat Marmite.
Well, gregory, your doctor is a prize idiot. You cannot get B12 from pulses, or any other plant foods (at least, not in significant amounts), and if your doctor tells his or her vegan patients that then he or she is putting their health at risk. He or she should be struck off! Psh! Tsk! (And other explosive expressions of outrage!)

By the way, B12 is also contained in eggs, of course, and that's not mentioned in the original article, either. You eat eggs and dairy products, don't you? So if you eat Marmite as well, you'll probably be getting plenty of B12, and won't have to consider supplementation.

Yes, the headline of the article was misleading (the Independent did rather better, with "Vitamin B12 may protect brain, says report". But it was not a particularly helpful story, in any case. The idea that B12 deficiency is linked to problems with cognition and memory is not a new one. But the article doesn't look at the causes of B12 deficiency. The study referred to was of 107 people aged 61 to 87. I would be very surprised if a significant number of them were vegetarian, let alone vegan. So, if some had low levels of B12, one has to wonder why. If it was because they ate very little in the way of meat, eggs, dairy produce and/or B12-fortified food, it may be that they were eating very little altogether, and so lacked other nutrients. It could also have been something to do with low absorption of B12. According to Wikipedia, B12 deficiency is common in the elderly "because B12 absorption decreases greatly in the presence of atrophic gastritis, which is common in elderly". And atrophic gastritis is associated with, among other things, persistent infection with Helicobacter pylori. I wonder whether there's been any research into possible links between Alzheimer's and H. pylori ... Hmm. There may be some evidence of it. See "Helicobacter pylori and Alzheimer's disease: a possible link", by M. Malaguarnera, R. Bella, G. Alagona, et al. European Journal of Internal Medicine 2004, Vol. 15, pp. 381-386. However:
Although degenerative diseases of the central nervous system, including Alzheimer's disease (AD), have an increasingly high impact on aged population their association with Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) infection has not as yet been thoroughly researched.
("Alzheimer's disease and Helicobacter pylori infection : Defective immune regulation and apoptosis as proposed common links"Medical hypotheses, 2007, vol. 68, no2, p. 378)

Anyway, it annoys me when journalists refer to the findings of one small study without putting it into context, or referring to other related studies. When they make the kind of unjustified leap that the Scotsman did, then that's particularly infuriating.

Emma

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Alan H
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#12 Post by Alan H » September 14th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Welcome back, Emma! I'm glad you got that off your chest, but I agree with your rant against bad journalism. There are a lot of problems with journalists and others from selectively taking just one study to support their position and ignoring many others or assuming new research trumps all previous ones, just because it's new.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

gregory
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#13 Post by gregory » September 20th, 2008, 10:40 am

Journalism has a nother problem too. Not so much the Scotsman maybe but certainly other papers.

What they do is have a shock horror headline which draws people in then end sensibly.

That may not be such a bad thing but in some instances people only remember the shock horror bits.

One subject in question and you may wish to move this somewhereelse is the Sex Education plans.

People get shocked that sex education will be taught to four year olds but ignore the bit where it says that it can be helpful in the long run for children to know the facts.

I do not suppose anyone really knows if this works inspite of statistics.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover

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LilacHamster
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#14 Post by LilacHamster » September 20th, 2008, 4:51 pm

Alan, I notice you are very good at going after those you believe are fraudulent health care practitioners so maybe you could go after incompetent doctors like Gregory's with much the same enthusiasm as you go after the homeopaths and spiritual healers, just a thought, especially since this nitwit is being paid by the NHS. It's very worrying that such a doctor is allowed to get away with misleading vegetarians and vegans and could possibly contribute to causing someone to get a B12 deficiency. I'm with Emma, he or she should be struck off, it's appalling.

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Alan H
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#15 Post by Alan H » September 20th, 2008, 5:56 pm

There are well-established methods of complaining about incompetent doctors [---][/---] they are regulated by the GMC and I'm sure Gregory is perfectly capable of following this route. However, perhaps a bit of re-education may be all that's required.

The same cannot be said for quacks. I regularly complain about them to the Advertising Standards Authority (and win) because they continually make claims that cannot be verified [---][/---] it's called fraud. Complaining about nonsense online is more difficult, but it needs to be done. I have no problem with someone making claims that can be backed up, but it is not right that people are mislead into thinking that they can be cured with water, crystals, magnets, praying or other such nonsense, particularly when they have serious medical conditions.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Rami
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#16 Post by Rami » October 4th, 2008, 9:23 am

I agree that the article's title was misleading and betrayed a bias. Clearly the solution is not necessarily meat. The solution is increased intake of vitamin B-12. Many vegan products are fortified with B-12. In addition to that many vegans (myself included) take vegan B-12 supplements. One tiny tablet a day contains something like 25 times the amount recommended by the FDA. So, chances are that my intake of vitamin B-12 is significantly greater than that of the average omnivore. Yet I eat no meat.

Time and again some people are trying to argue that since eating meat is "natural" it must be "unnatural" and harmful for us to abstain from eating meat. And so they use studies such as these to argue that one should eat meat - ignoring the fact that those of us privileged enough to live in the industrialized world do not need to eat any animal products in order to live healthy lives. We can get everything we need and more from non-animal products.

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SkiCarver
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Re: Eating meat may halt onset of dementia

#17 Post by SkiCarver » October 4th, 2008, 1:37 pm

wibble .... wibble ..... dribble.

I suppose I should have eaten meat at some point over the last 25 years! :D
Atheist by choice, dyslexic by the grace of dog.

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