Does school kill creativity

[Justme]

Please listen to this.

http://www.wimp.com/schoolscreativity/

[Dave B]

I have heard this talk by Ken Robinson before and have to agree with much that he says.

I often think that schools are in a bind, they are charged with imparting learning to a large (sometimes too large) number of kids within a strict budget of both money and time, with limited resources and to a curriculum and standard they mostly have little control over.

It would be great if they could allow far more creativity, had far more time to teach the kids self-reliance, teach them how to learn effectively. As it is, in this country at least, their best intentions are often fouled up by ever changing political decisions they have absolutely no control over (beyond striking.)

There is some tradition that the schools gave the tools and the family and experience of life and then work were where you learned to use them - certainly this was so when I was a kid and indulged in hobbies, went out into the wild whenever I got a chance, invented stuff, built soap-box carts, had part-time jobs etc. etc. I got a little encouragement from my parents in terms of presents (chemistry sets, Meccano etc) - what I was learning in academic terms was beyond their own education and my father did not see fit to pass on his skills as a craftsman, he was too tired after work and too impatient to teach (but I inherited them anyway!)

It is in the home that there is space and time for creativity but with parents too often stuck in front of the TV watching unreality shows, soaps and sports, most kids do not get a chance. We can se the results of this. Our local secondary school has converted to an academy, after getting every modernisation carried out and facility built by the local council that it could. I was not overly happy at this but so long as they keep to their "mission" of developing the kids as self-reliant individuals, of spotting and developing their personal aptitudes, I will continue to support them in any way that I can.

There has been lots of debate about equipping kids for work - I am in favour of this providing that work is not "robotic". Some kids are never going to sparkle but sometimes the real whiz-kids are suppressed to the point of rebellion. Those are the ends of the "spectrum". Should the employers have a say in what the kids are taught? Perhaps, so long as they do not demand only those robots.

I can only hope for the future that education is taken out of the hands of the politicians and run more by those who impart it and use it, hopefully with a little humanity thrown in to moderate things.

[Justme]

I have heard this talk by Ken Robinson before and have to agree with much that he says.

I often think that schools are in a bind, they are charged with imparting learning to a large (sometimes too large) number of kids within a strict budget of both money and time, with limited resources and to a curriculum and standard they mostly have little control over.

It would be great if they could allow far more creativity, had far more time to teach the kids self-reliance, teach them how to learn effectively. As it is, in this country at least, their best intentions are often fouled up by ever changing political decisions they have absolutely no control over (beyond striking.)

There is some tradition that the schools gave the tools and the family and experience of life and then work were where you learned to use them - certainly this was so when I was a kid and indulged in hobbies, went out into the wild whenever I got a chance, invented stuff, built soap-box carts, had part-time jobs etc. etc. I got a little encouragement from my parents in terms of presents (chemistry sets, Meccano etc) - what I was learning in academic terms was beyond their own education and my father did not see fit to pass on his skills as a craftsman, he was too tired after work and too impatient to teach (but I inherited them anyway!)

It is in the home that there is space and time for creativity but with parents too often stuck in front of the TV watching unreality shows, soaps and sports, most kids do not get a chance. We can se the results of this. Our local secondary school has converted to an academy, after getting every modernisation carried out and facility built by the local council that it could. I was not overly happy at this but so long as they keep to their "mission" of developing the kids as self-reliant individuals, of spotting and developing their personal aptitudes, I will continue to support them in any way that I can.

There has been lots of debate about equipping kids for work - I am in favour of this providing that work is not "robotic". Some kids are never going to sparkle but sometimes the real whiz-kids are suppressed to the point of rebellion. Those are the ends of the "spectrum". Should the employers have a say in what the kids are taught? Perhaps, so long as they do not demand only those robots.

I can only hope for the future that education is taken out of the hands of the politicians and run more by those who impart it and use it, hopefully with a little humanity thrown in to moderate things.

I agree with you, wholeheartedly. People talk about the natural resources of the ground, wind and solar as if they are the most important item in the world. I think that is because they can quickly gain profits to the greediest in our society.

People are our greatest natural resource and the children are the one's that are going to lead us into the next 100 years and beyond. We need to teach to the student instead of the class. Everyone has a place in this world and I really don't care if they sparkle at all. I care that they reach their potential and challenge the rest of us to do the same. We are living in the century of Another Brick in the Wall and we should shatter that wall and build bridges, instead.

[Dave B]

Yup, kids are the future!

[Nick]

I too have seen that before, and given it much thought.

I was also mightily impressed by Gareth Malone's "Extraordinary School for Boys", which was on television several years ago. Thankfully, it is now on You Tube.

Give yourself a hour and see what you think....

[Daven]

Yes, I believe they do kill creativity and also curiosity. Mainly because children in general are given no freedom whatsoever to choose what they learn about. They have no opportunity to exercise their volition. They are told what to do: go to this room at this time, then go to that room at that time. Then this, then that.

By the end of it most children have no curiosity because they have been told, albeit implicitly, that their interests are not important and that what is important is whatever the teacher tells them is important.

I think curiosity is an entirely natural instinct - like sleeping and eating - and it can thrive perfectly well if the child is given a choice on how to spend their day. Babies learn to walk and talk without any formal tuition and usualy without even meaning to - they just recognise it happening around them and begin to practice, slowly, until they can do it. I think people in general can learn like this but their inclination to pursue their curiosity is destroyed.

I think that literacy, numeracy and the principles of the scientific method should be explained to the children. Everything else should be them pursuing whatever it is they are interested in, with the adults facilitating their learning. Then we might have children leaving school who take an interest in the world around them, rather than in watching television and in buying things they don't need.

[Nick]

Just a thought....

When it comes to feeding, humans evolved certain characteristics to aid their survival. With modern abundance, obesity results.

In the same way, I wonder if it is evolution which has induced many millions to become addicted or almost addicted to computer games? Don't quite know what the connection might be. Any thoughts?

[Dave B]

I am not sure why I did not mention the Montessori education system. There are some things I am not sure about but it does have things to recommend it in terms of encouraging creativity and discovery.

Trouble is it is basically for the youngest kids, it is the secondary level education that can be so dulling. But, there is so much to stuff in in a limited number of hours and few schools run evening clubs for the more creative things.

[Daven]

Just a thought....

When it comes to feeding, humans evolved certain characteristics to aid their survival. With modern abundance, obesity results.

In the same way, I wonder if it is evolution which has induced many millions to become addicted or almost addicted to computer games? Don't quite know what the connection might be. Any thoughts?

Yeah i'd agree, and I think it's the same with the appeal of TV over books. Evolutionarily (if that's a word) we probably gravitate towards these things (ie TV and games) because there is no end to the novelty of them - lots of constantly changing images, flashing lights and different sounds. In nature that probably meant something was happening that you could learn a lot from.

[Altfish]

Don't parents, grandparents, etc. have a roll in this too?

School may well be formulated, it is then up to the children's carers to widen their minds; museums, National Trust, climbing, fishing, pond dipping, etc

[Dave B]

Don't parents, grandparents, etc. have a roll in this too?

School may well be formulated, it is then up to the children's carers to widen their minds; museums, National Trust, climbing, fishing, pond dipping, etc

I fully agree but I also fear that there are some parents who spend as much time in front of the idiot lantern as their kids - if not more - then wonder why their kids are a problem.

I have no kids of my own, something I regret at times, but have enjoyed helping the kids of others with their interests when the opportunity has arisen.

[Altfish]

Oh, I accept that many parents, etc. will fail in this; but why blame schools who are under immense pressure to perform in the league table that do not include creative activities.

[Dave B]

Oh, I accept that many parents, etc. will fail in this; but why blame schools who are under immense pressure to perform in the league table that do not include creative activities.

It seems that "league tables" and similar ways of measuring performance seem to cause more problems than they solve!

Yes, I do understand the drive to get as many kids through the mill as possible but, like the flour in a real mill, fine quality is only achieved with care and attention, not by forcing the grain under the stone.

[Daven]

I don't blame schools at all, my partner is a teacher and she is the hardest-working person I know! I trained as a teacher and generally speaking teachers are hard-working and well-meaning.

I have issue with the policy-makers who have set things as they are, not the teachers. Many of the teachers know no different to what they're experiencing - certainly many on my PGCE just seemed to go along with many aspects of the education system and the PGCE course itself had league tables to worry about so didn't bother engaging us much in the philosophy behind it (would lead to too many awkward questions!)

The issue is that the vast majority of people in the ed, system is looking over their shoulder in case someone higher above is here who they have to justify themselves to. Bear in mind also that many teachers have been through the same system and can't imagine anything different anyway.

[Nick]

Don't parents, grandparents, etc. have a roll in this too?

School may well be formulated, it is then up to the children's carers to widen their minds; museums, National Trust, climbing, fishing, pond dipping, etc

Have you tried that with teenagers recently....? They tend to look at you as if you are mad!

[Dave B]

Don't parents, grandparents, etc. have a roll in this too?

School may well be formulated, it is then up to the children's carers to widen their minds; museums, National Trust, climbing, fishing, pond dipping, etc

Have you tried that with teenagers recently....? They tend to look at you as if you are mad!

Got to start with them before they get to be teenagers. But, even then, if they do not have creativity or curiosity genes in their make-up you are not going to make an impression that will last. Perhaps one should still try though . . .

[Daven]

Curiosity is in everyone's genetic make-up. Look at literally any baby and they will be curious. Most small children too. It gets killed by not giving children the chance to express it - at schools, at home and so on.

[Dave B]

Curiosity is in everyone's genetic make-up. Look at literally any baby and they will be curious. Most small children too. It gets killed by not giving children the chance to express it - at schools, at home and so on.

I sit corrected, almost everyone I know is curious . . .