INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used. For further information, see our Privacy Policy. Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

For discussions related to education and educational institutions.

Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

Yes
8
32%
No
16
64%
Other
1
4%
 
Total votes: 25

Message
Author
User avatar
Paolo
Posts: 1474
Joined: September 13th, 2008, 9:15 am

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#21 Post by Paolo » November 22nd, 2008, 10:43 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Emma Woolgatherer wrote:
Paolo wrote:Let's turn this round a bit - should members of the BHA be barred from the clergy?
Let's turn it round a bit more. If the UK were a theocracy, and all the schools were faith schools, and nearly everyone was religious, and religious beliefs informed all public decisions, should members of the BHA [---][/---] an organisation with explicit opinions about religion that conflicted with the opinions held by all public institutions and by the wider society [---][/---] be barred from being teachers, police officers, civil servants and members of the armed forces? After all, people should not be in a position where their stated views conflict with the institutional interests of their employer. They could easily keep their humanism quiet, but simply not become a member of a club that gives a clear indication of their affiliations. In other words, they could have freedom of thought, but not freedom of expression or freedom of association. Emma
Can we go back to my thought experiment please, the one that has a direct bearing on the actual world we live in rather than a purely hypotheical world? For a member of the BHA to join the clergy would be incredibly hypocritical.
The modern education system is supposed to promote inclusion and diversity, whereas the BNP stands against these ideals. In order to do their job properly a BNP member would have to supress opinions that they clearly feel strongly about (otherwise why would they join?). Self-imposed hypocrisy never brings out the best in people, they tend to become subversive.
lewist wrote:I can recall when I was at school, there was a history teacher in the secondary school down the road who was an Empire Loyalist. She didn't need to be banned from teaching. It was well known what her personal views were and the brighter children were aware and had her number. Had she taught with an overt political slant she would have been rumbled very quickly. As I recall, she was a minor figure of fun.
The point I'm trying to make is that where personal opinions clash with institutional opinions something has to give. If the views of an employee do not complement those of the institution, perhaps they are in the wrong job? Lewist's ancedote misses the point - what if she was an excellent teacher and was well respected? Her personal views would then gain a air of credibility with her students.

It is perfectly possible to be racist and intelligent and well-respected. Teachers should be role models, if they are not then are they good teachers? If they are, do you want them to hold socially views not acceptable to wider society?

User avatar
Emma Woolgatherer
Posts: 2976
Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#22 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » November 22nd, 2008, 11:38 am

Paolo wrote:Can we go back to my thought experiment please, the one that has a direct bearing on the actual world we live in rather than a purely hypotheical world? For a member of the BHA to join the clergy would be incredibly hypocritical.
Of course it would, which is why no self-respecting humanist would attempt it, which is why it is purely hypothetical and has no direct bearing on this matter. As far as I know, members of the BHA are not banned from joining the clergy, because the issue just doesn't arise. If a trainee vicar (not sure of the right terminology here) were to admit to not believing in God, however, he or she might well be prevented from being ordained. Your example is much more about what people believe "in their own time" than about what organisations they are members of.
Paolo wrote:The modern education system is supposed to promote inclusion and diversity, whereas the BNP stands against these ideals. In order to do their job properly a BNP member would have to supress opinions that they clearly feel strongly about (otherwise why would they join?). Self-imposed hypocrisy never brings out the best in people, they tend to become subversive.
As Lewist has made clear, teachers have to suppress their opinions all the time, as do civil servants and lots of other people. I am constantly suppressing my opinions, and it hasn't made me subversive ... yet. However, if I were forced to give up my membership of a perfectly legal organisation in order to carry on doing the job I loved, then who knows what I might be driven to.
Paolo wrote:The point I'm trying to make is that where personal opinions clash with institutional opinions something has to give. If the views of an employee do not complement those of the institution, perhaps they are in the wrong job?
And what would be the right job for a racist? Besides, you can't stop people whose views do not complement those of an institution from being a part of that institution simply by banning members of particular organisations from joining the institution. People need to work. I should imagine that most would rather give up BNP membership, or not join in the first place, than give up their jobs. Even without a ban on BNP membership, there would have been many teachers with BNP-type views who wouldn't have wanted to risk joining. And after the publication of the membership list, many more are likely to think twice about joining. It won't change their personal opinions.
Paolo wrote:It is perfectly possible to be racist and intelligent and well-respected. Teachers should be role models, if they are not then are they good teachers? If they are, do you want them to hold socially views not acceptable to wider society?
I am perfectly happy for teachers to hold views not acceptable to wider society. I am happy, for example, for teachers to be in favour of abolishing the monarchy, decriminalising incest between consenting adults, legalising all drugs and prohibiting the inheritance of private property. I am not perfectly happy for teachers to believe that the racial and cultural integrity of the British people [---][/---] whatever that is [---][/---] should be preserved at all costs, but I accept it as an unavoidable consequence of us all having freedom of thought and expression. In any case, how do you propose to stop people who hold such views from being teachers? Perhaps by including the question "Are you a racist or a xenophobe?" on the application form?

Emma

tubataxidriver
Posts: 375
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:39 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#23 Post by tubataxidriver » November 22nd, 2008, 8:16 pm

From past and current experience I can say that teachers in topic areas where opinion is developed and discussed, such as in history, religious studies, economics and other broader humanities disciplines, seem to have some trouble hiding their own views and putting things over a balanced manner.

My example from the past is my old form teacher, the stereotypical Guardian-reading left-wing liberal, whose lessons were scattered with such views, and who despite being a teacher of economics did not really provide much positive support for the concept of capitalist entrepreneurialism. Hardly balanced.

My current examples are my daughter's teachers of religious studies (she is studying "RS, Philosophy and Ethics", principally for the philosophy and ethics) who while acknowledging her non-belief, persist in framing all discussions around the "god" concept, because, it seems, they are believers and can't seem to see it from the alternative point of view.

If the same is true of BNP-supporting teachers then schools need to monitor what is being presented to make sure it presents a balanced approach as set out in the relevant syllabi.

User avatar
getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#24 Post by getreal » November 22nd, 2008, 10:44 pm

Can someone clarify if members of BNP are prevented from joining the police force because of the politics of the BNP or merely because they are a member of ANY political party.
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that law abiding citizens of the UK are prevented from joining the police because they are members of a legal (though abhorrent) political party.

I am aware, though, that there are posts within Local Government which are classed as 'politically restricted', which I think means that you cannot be appointed if you are a paid up member of ANY political party.

As to whether members of BNP should be prevented from joining the teaching profession, I suppose the same question could be asked about their joining social work.
It would be very difficult for someone who hold such extreme views getting through the interview process (assuming they had managed to get through the degree course!) as they would be incompatable with the work of a social worker. However, should they manage to lie their way into a position, if they were to act upon their views they would be in breech of the social work code of practice.

I would hope the same would hold true of teaching.

I am not aware that mambership of Al Quaeda disbarrs someone from any profession in the UK.
It is how people put their beliefs into action which matters. What they think in private should have no bearing on the matter.

OOps! I feel I may be sounding a little extreme myself, now :)
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

lewist
Posts: 4402
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 8:53 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#25 Post by lewist » November 22nd, 2008, 10:50 pm

Paolo wrote:The point I'm trying to make is that where personal opinions clash with institutional opinions something has to give. If the views of an employee do not complement those of the institution, perhaps they are in the wrong job? Lewist's ancedote misses the point - what if she was an excellent teacher and was well respected? Her personal views would then gain a air of credibility with her students.

It is perfectly possible to be racist and intelligent and well-respected. Teachers should be role models, if they are not then are they good teachers? If they are, do you want them to hold socially views not acceptable to wider society?
I don't believe I have missed the point at all, Paolo. An institution does not have views, nor should it. The teacher has to reflect that. In mainstream education children should find open mindedness. No matter what a teacher's beliefs may be, there is a curriculum to teach. The teacher has to give a clear impression of open mindedness and respond at times with '...yes, some people may think that'.

Our hypothetical BNP teachers should reflect that in the same way as all other teachers should.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#26 Post by Alan H » November 22nd, 2008, 11:26 pm

getreal wrote:Can someone clarify if members of BNP are prevented from joining the police force because of the politics of the BNP or merely because they are a member of ANY political party.
I think someone said earlier that belonging to any political party was a disbar to being in the police.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Emma Woolgatherer
Posts: 2976
Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#27 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » November 22nd, 2008, 11:46 pm

getreal wrote:Can someone clarify if members of BNP are prevented from joining the police force because of the politics of the BNP or merely because they are a member of ANY political party.

I am aware, though, that there are posts within Local Government which are classed as 'politically restricted', which I think means that you cannot be appointed if you are a paid up member of ANY political party.
No, it doesn't mean that. It means that you can't have an active political role either inside or outside the workplace. So you can't hold political office, or occupy party-political posts, or hold particularly sensitive or high-profile roles in a political party, or campaign on behalf of a political party, or speak in public or publish writing in support of a political party. But you can be a paid-up member of a political party, and you don't need to declare it. As far as I can tell, something similar applies in the police force.

Emma

User avatar
Emma Woolgatherer
Posts: 2976
Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#28 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » November 22nd, 2008, 11:50 pm

ACPO bans police from joining BNP
BBC News, Tuesday, 27 July, 2004

Police officers and staff could face dismissal if they join the British National Party (BNP) under a new policy agreed by senior officers.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said the policy was unanimously endorsed at a Chief Constables' Council meeting this month.

The policy applied to membership of bodies in conflict with the force's duty to promote race equality, it said.

But the BNP says it is a legal party, and that Acpo's policy is undemocratic.

In a statement announcing the policy Acpo president Chris Fox said chief police officers were totally committed to compliance with the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000.

Maria Mac
Site Admin
Posts: 9307
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#29 Post by Maria Mac » November 23rd, 2008, 12:12 am

Thanks for digging that up, Emma.

Further to getreal's question, I also heard today in a discussion on Radio 4 that policy on whether police officers are allowed to be members of any political party varies from one regional police service to another but that some allow PCs but not higher ranks to be members of mainstream political parties.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#30 Post by Alan H » November 23rd, 2008, 12:21 am

But ACPO isn't the employer, surely? So how can they dictate employment conditions? Or do they just all agree to discriminate? Is that legal? (Well, I assume it is, but I don't see how.)
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

tubataxidriver
Posts: 375
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:39 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#31 Post by tubataxidriver » November 23rd, 2008, 6:58 pm

The "politically restricted" classification in many public sector jobs relates only to campaigning, leading, being a candidate, speaking and being an activist for a political party. You are allowed to be a member and donate to a party as long as you don't take it further. In many such jobs people are often slightly encouraged to be a member of a political party because it demonstrates that you have interests in and links with political matters.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#32 Post by Alan H » November 23rd, 2008, 11:43 pm

Just for a bit of light relief: Hitler's BNP membership gets leaked
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#33 Post by Alan H » December 6th, 2008, 12:39 am

In today's Scotsman:
********************************************************************************
Two arrested over leak of BNP names on internet list - The Scotsman
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestn ... id=4767948
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Two arrested over leak of BNP names on internet list

Published Date: 06 December 2008
By Theo Usherwood
TWO people have been arrested over the leak of a list of BNP members, police said yesterday.
The arrests in Brinsley, Nottinghamshire, were part of an investigation into the release of the list on an internet blog last month.

The dossier contained the names of thousands of BNP supporters. They included current and former servicemen, a police officer, teachers and doctors.

A police spokeswoman said: "Nottinghamshire Police arrested two people as part of a joint investigation with the Information Commissioner's Office, in connection with alleged criminal offences under the Data Protection Act.

"The arrests followed an investigation into a complaint received about the unauthorised release of the BNP party membership list."

The BNP first blamed former members for the leak but later said it was a plot hatched by Labour supporters. BNP leader Nick Griffin pledged to take legal action against those responsible but also welcomed the wave of publicity it generated.

He made a point of claiming the list proved members came from a cross-section of society.

One member, Lionel Buck, 64, a former chairman of the Conservative Party in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, said he joined the BNP because he did not think the rights of the UK's "indigenous population" were represented in mainstream politics.

[Retrieved: Sat Dec 06 2008 00:38:25 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#34 Post by Alan H » December 6th, 2008, 12:13 pm

In today's Times:
********************************************************************************
The dangerous temptations of instant truth | Matthew Parris - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 295428.ece
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The dangerous temptations of instant truth
As communication gets ever faster, we must ask if the very speed at which we can know things endangers our liberty
Matthew Parris

Yesterday was the 50th anniversary of the introduction of a subscriber trunk dialling system that allowed us, for the first time, to make direct long-distance domestic calls without the mediation of an operator. Yesterday, too, two arrests were made in connection with the leaking and publication last month of the BNP's national membership list. Bear with me as I explore an argument straddling both.

Those who heard recordings of the Queen's first trunk call may have smiled at how old-fashioned it all sounds now. But beneath antique trappings, the reality was modern: a huge leap towards instant communication. Since then we have hurtled ever faster towards constant contact with everybody, everywhere, all the time. The land line itself is becoming antique: we have computer links, mobile phone links and, increasingly, video links.

Hand in hand with this increased ease of transmission, goes a development of immense significance. Modern information technology is fast learning not only how to move, but how to filter and to link. We're enabled to select and lasso the information we want; join it to other information; and to group, and herd, and tag the facts, descriptions and people we want. Our potential command of lists to fish in is breathtaking.

Earlier this week a friend e-mailed me (“for a bit of a laugh”) an internet link whereby, just by entering your postcode, you can access a list of all the members of the British National Party living close to your own home, with names, postcodes and their distance from your door. This link has been designed around that BNP list leaked last month, and has been doing the rounds for some days, spreading like a virus.

I tried it for myself, entering my Derbyshire postcode. Within seconds, on to my screen popped a list of names and postcodes. I recognised one of the names. A second click and on the screen appeared a map tracing routes with arrows - walking, driving or by public transport - direct from my door to virtually the garden gate of whichever individual I had chosen to pursue. Using name and postcode and a couple of inquiries I could have been knocking on the door of any one of them within 20 minutes. Or I could have sent a postcard. Or something worse.

And was it a laugh? No. The moment those names and postcodes appeared on my screen I felt a sharp and involuntary stab of shame. I knew at once this was wrong. It was like rifling through someone's desk; or monitoring a private call. Perhaps a first-time burglar intruding, without their knowledge, into another person's home, feels this: the power, the guilt and the thrill of trespass.

The publication of that list of members and their addresses was itself a serious infringement of their privacy. The design of an internet programme that will be of instant appeal to every nosey-parker in the land - and that's most of us - takes the offence further. How would Jews, or Muslim clerics, or pacifists, or Porsche-owners, or naturists, or anti-hunt or pro-hunt supporters, or members of any group that may attract hostility, ridicule or prejudice, feel about attempts to construct and publish a list that identifies names and addresses? The case against has surely only to be stated to be made.

Or does it? What new issue of principle does this raise that could not have been raised in 1808 or 1958? Membership lists of organisations could always be stolen. There have for centuries been means of publication. You could have printed the names and addresses in the national press a hundred years ago. A thousand years ago you could have copied them out and nailed them to a tree. The laws of libel or slander never offered protection from the publication of the truth.

What has changed is not the principle of what may be done, but the effortlessness and speed with which it may be done.

Return a moment to that “where are they?” internet link. The story needn't end at the discomfiture of those on it. The browser who has established the identities and whereabouts of his closest BNP-supporting neighbours can, without lifting more than a finger, recruit and form a new list: a Facebook group of anti-BNP vigilantes. This list can be triggered - again with no more than a few clicks - into forming what is called a flashmob (already common practice) outside any address, at any time.

Lest you think this unlikely, consider a scenario in which a mass-circulation popular newspaper leading a crusade for the public's right to know about locally resident paedophiles, procures from a maverick senior police source the national sex offenders register, and... Well, need we spell it out further? But again, no new issues of principle here. It has always been possible to organise a demo or a lynching, and people often did; the difference is that it was incomparably slower, less efficient, more expensive and harder work.

As a learner driver in the field of internet capabilities, I am only just beginning to understand the vast new potency of access to lists, whether in the hands of governments, businesses or private individuals. I realise how important is the security - or lack of it - of lists in the Government's hands; and what an enormous step would be the creation of a universal list: a national identity card register.

But I'm also having to face a thought I've always resisted. As someone with a lifelong interest in the philosophy of liberty and of law, there's one philosophical anchor I've held to without wavering: that except in very special circumstances we should never be forbidden from speaking or publishing what is true. The test (I've maintained) should not be: is it kind? Is it fair? Is it tasteful? Or even: is it in the public interest? - cloudy notions every one - but that rock of a criterion: is it true? But now I begin to wonder. When publication was a clodhopping business and fact-gathering laborious, personal privacy was protected by a sort of de facto armour. We never had to confront an imagined world where anyone could find out anything about anyone and tell everyone within seconds.

But today, not only have we the means to retrieve and transmit at breakneck speed the fruits of intrusions into privacy, but we're getting frighteningly clever at the intrusion too. Long-lens photography, easily trackable communications, instant mobile phone photography, the facility to record almost anything, anywhere, ease of storage of vast files of information... all this forces me to wonder whether in the past, when practical constraints clipped the wings of free speech, we could tell ourselves (in what we thought an argument of principle) that we recognised no limits to how far it should fly.

We have not that luxury now. What are effectively privacy laws are creeping up on us. And for the first time in my life I'm beginning to wonder whether “Is it true?” can remain the only question.

* Have your say

The point made is of course valid, theft of information can now be instantly transmitted. However I fail to see any technological means of preventing it. And in the balance of truth, freedom and transparency versus concealment, lies, and opacity, I had rather the balance fell in favour of truth.

Paul Freeman, London, England

[Retrieved: Sat Dec 06 2008 12:11:59 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

tubataxidriver
Posts: 375
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:39 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#35 Post by tubataxidriver » December 7th, 2008, 11:33 pm

Interestingly, it has been revealed that someone on the BNP list is also well known as a leading UK creationism activist, linked to a number of evangelical groups.

There are pretty well-established links in the USA between far right politics and creationism / intelligent design, but this looks like the first example seen in the UK.

http://community.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2052

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#36 Post by Alan H » December 24th, 2008, 1:06 pm

In today's Guardian:
********************************************************************************
Merseyside PC to face misconduct charge for appearance on BNP member list | Politics | The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008 ... ide-police
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PC to face misconduct charge for appearance on BNP member list

* Esther Addley
* The Guardian, Wednesday 24 December 2008
* Article history

A police officer who was revealed to belong to the BNP when the party's membership details were leaked online will face a misconduct panel, Merseyside police said yesterday.

PC Steve Bettley, who is a serving officer, was named on the register of members which was published on the internet last month, and was immediately suspended from duty pending an investigation. Police officers have been banned from belonging to the party since 2004 because of forces' obligations under race relations laws.

In a statement yesterday, the force said: "Merseyside police has completed its investigation of an officer alleged to be a member of the BNP. It has been recommended that the police constable face a misconduct panel. The matter is now in the hands of Merseyside police's solicitors for further consideration." Bettley, who once worked as a personal driver to the Merseyside chief constable Bernard Hogan-Howe, will remain suspended.

Among the 13,000 names on the leaked list were 17 former police officers, including a retired chief inspector. Every police force was expected to examine the list for serving officers' names, the Association of Chief Police Officers said. The Prison Service pledged it would expel any BNP members on its staff.

Two people were arrested on 5 December under the Data Protection Act following an investigation by Dyfed and Powys police into the leak.

The leak followed a bitter split within the organisation. In April party leader Nick Griffin and the BNP's press spokesman, Simon Darby, took out an injunction against six former members who had been expelled, preventing them from using or making public BNP material.

Speaking at the time of Bettley's suspension, a Merseyside police spokesman said: "We are very clear: membership of the British National party is totally incompatible with the duties and values of the police service and Merseyside police. We will not accept a police officer or police staff being a member of BNP."

The general secretary of the National Association of Schoolmasters and Union of Woman Teachers, Chris Keates, said those declaring an affiliation to the BNP should not be allowed to teach. But the schools department said there was no ban on BNP supporters working as teachers, though they could be fired if they expressed racist views.

[Retrieved: Wed Dec 24 2008 13:06:15 GMT+0000 (GMT Standard Time)]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
coledavis
Posts: 369
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:29 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#37 Post by coledavis » April 25th, 2009, 7:40 pm

On principle, I voted 'no'. I would be less than keen on being in the power of such a person and indeed, can remember one of my teachers in the 1970s saying splenetic things about jews and black people. Having said that, a person who holds private views and does not let them influence his work should not be hounded; that way lies all manner of social perversions. If the BNPer can hold their personal views in check, then we have no more right to bother them than extreme religious types, revolutionary communists and flat-earthing, Jesus-walking-with-dinosaurs theorists. I personally think that the earth was indeed created in six days, as a fluke of the big bang (which I sometimes believe in when it suits), but I only tell my students that to annoy them.
http://www.coledavis.org - insight analyst, specialist in the interpretation of surveys for charities and education

http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction

User avatar
mewi
Posts: 72
Joined: June 15th, 2009, 1:04 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#38 Post by mewi » June 20th, 2009, 9:39 pm

Not banned from the job, but banned from teaching their extremist views to children, and if they violate that ban, they will then be banned from their job. Edit: By the way, I have no idea on the laws in the UK, so I apologize if my statement is redundant. *lives in the United States*
What is the point in being required to type "in my opinion" after every paragraph? I am writing it, who's else's opinion would it be? So why is it relevant to type "in my opinion" to begin with?

User avatar
coledavis
Posts: 369
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:29 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#39 Post by coledavis » June 21st, 2009, 5:19 am

mewi wrote:Not banned from the job, but banned from teaching their extremist views to children, and if they violate that ban, they will then be banned from their job. Edit: By the way, I have no idea on the laws in the UK, so I apologize if my statement is redundant. *lives in the United States*
I'd go with that.
http://www.coledavis.org - insight analyst, specialist in the interpretation of surveys for charities and education

http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction

User avatar
jaywhat
Posts: 15807
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#40 Post by jaywhat » June 21st, 2009, 6:43 am

This subject has now come up again in the press and I have read through all this thread and have to admit I do not now know what to think.

I guess the strongest feeling I have is regarding the amount of 'public role' involved. 'Just being a member' is perhaps anyone's right.
I just hate them all, but to be logical - well if it is a legal political party - and is it any worse than 'militant fundamentalists in any religion'. What a mess - I do not know what to think any more.

User avatar
coledavis
Posts: 369
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:29 pm

Re: Should BNP members be barred from teaching jobs?

#41 Post by coledavis » June 21st, 2009, 3:17 pm

I think it is important to separate what one doesn't like from what really needs to be banned. This is a problem which many governments haven't really addressed with clarity, in my opinion.
http://www.coledavis.org - insight analyst, specialist in the interpretation of surveys for charities and education

http://www.careersteer.org - careers quiz helping people to choose their career direction

Post Reply