Nick wrote: well this is where we disagree. ISTM that the benefits of belonging to the EU ought to be enough to keep members in. If a member leaves, why should the EU do anything other than arrange the best deal they can with the ex-member? The problem for the EU, is that membership is not conclusively attractive enough for countries to consider that alternative arrangements would be preferable. In order to keep the EU together, the EU is deliberately making life difficult for the UK. Why, for example, are they refusing to consider what trading arrangements we might have in future, before we have left the EU? Just to be bloody minded to discourage others. I see no other explanation.
well, I can. I think that the EU stance is perfectly rational. Sort out one problem, then sort out another. What's wrong with that?
Well, for a start, they are interconnected. The nature of Brexit may change, depending on the sort of agreement the EU might contemplate.
How about enlightening us on how you see Britain coping with Brexit,
OK, I'll try, but in return, can you explain why the Euro has been a good thing for southern Europe?
certainly not! For one thing, why should I?[/quote]Do you mean can't or won't? If you can't then (even if it is tedious,) it would IMO, be a good thing if you understood! If the answer is "won't" then that is up to you, but it seems a little churlish, coming straight after a request for me to answer a question, which I did without waiting for reciprocation.
I am not aware that this forum operates on some bargaining basis
, sadly it is decreasingly based on much discussion at all....
and much more important, I have no opinion on the euro and am glad that the UK did not join the Eurozone. You seem to be stuck on irrelevant issues to the big question facing Britain, ie of whether to leave the EU or not, and your obsessions do get a bit tedious
To my mind, the Euro is integral to whether we should leave the EU or not. Sorry to be tedious, but maybe that's just me.....
Nick wrote:Let's try an analogy. We allow UK citizens to live overseas. We do not say "If you live overseas, you can't work in the UK any more". If we don't want to live under the same roof, why not be the best of neighbours?
poor analogy which has absolutely nothing to do with the relationship between a club and one of its members; whyever would Britain penalise its expatriates in the way that you fantasise? You obviously don't read much that I say, because I have already dealt with this analogy (albeit on FB probably).[/quote]That's a grumpy response, animist! It was just an analogy of the top of my head. I'll try to do better. And as I had only just come up with that analogy, (unless I've forgotten) I'm puzzled by your assertion to have "dealt with it".
If the UK wants to simply be a neighbour of the EU then it would demand nothing from it.
The UK wants to be a free-trading neighbour. The EU appears to be going out of its way to spite the UK, even though it will itself suffer as a consequence. To my mind, that demonstrates the nasty nature of the EU institutions.
But, in your own words, you seem to think that the EU is for some reason morally obliged to give Britain whatever it wants, basically - ie to negotiate some favourable trade deal with the EU while it is still in the process of leaving it!
I dunno whether I would describe it as morally, but I do think the EU should seek to do the best for its own citizens, which includes having good trade relations with its neighbours.
(Maybe more later....)