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In or out?

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#121 Post by Graham R » June 24th, 2016, 5:55 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

David Cameron is absolutely to blame for this outcome.
This referendum was totally unnecessary.
The issue is complicated and should have been decided by a group of informed people.
Those people are in the Houses of Parliament not the country.
Now we have the blond buffoon in charge and the possible break-up of the Union.
Relish the privilege of existence

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#122 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 6:03 pm

Graham R wrote:David Cameron is absolutely to blame for this outcome.
This referendum was totally unnecessary.
The issue is complicated and should have been decided by a group of informed people.
Those people are in the Houses of Parliament not the country.
Now we have the blond buffoon in charge and the possible break-up of the Union.
:thumbsup: Spot on.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#123 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 11:55 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#124 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 10:17 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#125 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 11:24 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#126 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 11:26 am

I want my country back
Cameron, who today must be longing for the morning when all he had to deal with was the papers claiming he once had sex with a dead pig in university, sold us all up the river that runs through the chasm of British culture. In a sop to the eurosceptic wing of his own party, he gambled the future of the nation and the political stability of the continent for his own career.

The whole mess started because of a disagreement between rival factions of a right-wing government which is still tearing itself apart and taking the rest of us with it. The fractured Left, unable to unite behind a leader with a popular mandate, was nowhere in this conversation until it was far too late. Cameron promised a referendum in order to pander to the rise of a xenophobic far right and secure his own power: he got his wish, was duly re-elected, and now his career is over, and so are the life chances of millions of young British people. He gets to slink off back to Oxfordshire and live off his family money. Don't weep for Hameron. He'll be fine.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#127 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#128 Post by Dave B » June 25th, 2016, 2:06 pm

13466307_1114336785305569_4965286906254561290_n.jpg
13466307_1114336785305569_4965286906254561290_n.jpg (66.23 KiB) Viewed 1572 times
Taken at the Channel Tunnel this morning.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

lewist
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 8:53 pm

Re: In or out?

#129 Post by lewist » June 25th, 2016, 2:12 pm

Graham R wrote:...and the possible break-up of the Union.
So some good may come of it, for Scotland anyway. :smile:
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

Gottard
Posts: 1306
Joined: October 3rd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Re: In or out?

#130 Post by Gottard » June 25th, 2016, 3:03 pm

This is a test but I also have a semi-serious suggestion: if a second referendum will be held in Scotland, as it is highly likely, and if it wins, which is very likely, will it switch to right-driving? To show England that the border has indeed been marked? :question:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#131 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 5:08 pm

Gottard wrote:This is a test but I also have a semi-serious suggestion: if a second referendum will be held in Scotland, as it is highly likely, and if it wins, which is very likely, will it switch to right-driving? To show England that the border has indeed been marked? :question:
We got your email about not being able to post - we don't know what the problem might have been, but it seems to have resolved itself now.

Driving on the right might shake a few people up, but the armed guard , border patrols, currency exchange and customs may well be enough to mark the border...

But that does raise an interesting question: would the fact someone in England would have to cross a border to get to friends/relatives in Scotland make them think?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Tetenterre
Posts: 3244
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: In or out?

#132 Post by Tetenterre » June 25th, 2016, 5:28 pm

The solution to each of the nations in the UK getting what it voted for is deceptively simple:
* England, Wales and NI secede from the UK. Having seceded from an EU member nation, they would then no longer be members of the EU, but Scotland, the only remaining country in the UK, would still be in the EU.
* NI reunites with Eire. It therefore becomes part of the EU.
* The remnant of the UK renames itself "Scotland".

I suspect there's an appropriate HL Mencken quote somewhere... :laughter:
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#133 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 5:50 pm

Tetenterre wrote:The solution to each of the nations in the UK getting what it voted for is deceptively simple:
* England, Wales and NI secede from the UK. Having seceded from an EU member nation, they would then no longer be members of the EU, but Scotland, the only remaining country in the UK, would still be in the EU.
* NI reunites with Eire. It therefore becomes part of the EU.
* The remnant of the UK renames itself "Scotland".

I suspect there's an appropriate HL Mencken quote somewhere... :laughter:
Ha! Simple really (but you're right about the HL Menken quote).
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#134 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 6:14 pm

A pyrrhic victory? Boris Johnson wakes up to the costs of Brexit
Perhaps Johnson really did have a last-minute epiphany, declaring for leave in the sober realisation that this was always how it might end – Scotland demanding independence, Northern Ireland’s fragile political settlement at risk, Marine Le Pen jubilant, the Bank of England stumping up £250bn to stabilise the market. Perhaps he’s still convinced all will be fine eventually.

And let’s hope to God he’s right. Any remainer who doesn’t pray to be proved wrong about Brexit is callous, wishing disaster on people who are unable to afford it. But right now, what scorched earth Johnson stands to inherit – a nation febrile and divided, teetering on the brink of economic and constitutional crisis. It’s all over for David Cameron now. But it feels, too, like the end of a broader modernising movement to which both he and Johnson belonged.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#135 Post by Graham R » June 25th, 2016, 6:46 pm

The petition for a 2nd referendum is currently at a total of 2,040,406 signatures and is rising at a rate of 150,000 per hour.
Relish the privilege of existence

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#136 Post by Dave B » June 25th, 2016, 7:42 pm

Graham R wrote:The petition for a 2nd referendum is currently at a total of 2,040,406 signatures and is rising at a rate of 150,000 per hour.
Is there a link to the petition anywhere?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#137 Post by Alan H » June 25th, 2016, 8:09 pm

EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
It's not really calling for a second petition per se, but about conditions that should have been in place before the first one.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#138 Post by Dave B » June 25th, 2016, 8:43 pm

Alan H wrote:EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
It's not really calling for a second petition per se, but about conditions that should have been in place before the first one.
Looks rather like it asks for a second referrendum to me...
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#139 Post by Dave B » June 25th, 2016, 8:51 pm

"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#140 Post by Graham R » June 25th, 2016, 9:20 pm

Alan H wrote:EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
It's not really calling for a second petition per se, but about conditions that should have been in place before the first one.
True, but I think we're expecting the rule to be retrospective.
Relish the privilege of existence

Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#141 Post by Graham R » June 25th, 2016, 9:28 pm

Dave B wrote:
Graham R wrote:The petition for a 2nd referendum is currently at a total of 2,040,406 signatures and is rising at a rate of 150,000 per hour.
Is there a link to the petition anywhere?
It's on the petition.parliament.uk site
Relish the privilege of existence

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