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In or out?

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#101 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 7:44 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Yup, though I can understand it. We head for interesting tines, unfortunately.

I have the feeling that it is as much a vote against the piss poor politicial behaviour in the UK as much as against Europe.

Are our pokiticians, at long last, going to start pulling for Britain and not for their rich pals and against each other. We are going to need a far stronger job base now, proper jobs making saleable stuff and paying a proper wage. Not a few high flyers earning sick commissions with barely living wages and zero hours contracts for the rest of us.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#102 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 9:32 am

I ranted on Facebook and Twitter last night:

[rant] This referendum has always been about the decades-old internecine war within the Tory Party - and essentially only about that. They have foisted their internal squabbles on the rest of us, causing rifts in families, communities and friendships.

We are all bruised, battered and angry because of this.

But this is par for the course for the Tories. It's what they do; it's what they excel at and always have.

The Tories have spent the last six years breaking this country apart, bit by bit; breaking its citizens; setting one against another; crushing spirits, demolishing morale and selling off hope; taking everything they could from the poor, the unfortunate, the sick, the disabled and the unemployed.

We all need to re-group, reform, and unite against these vile, self-serving, nasty and uncaring Tories.

We all need to unite and make sure the Tories have no more opportunities to further destroy us. [/rant]

David 'call me Dave' Cameron couldn't unite his own party so he broke the EU and broke the UK. He fucked the poor. He fucked the disabled. He fucked the unemployed. (And he fucked a pig.) Now he's fucked the rest of us.

We have been sacrificed to his god of self-servatism and we will all (well, not the rich, obviously) suffer the consequences for generations. We will now have the likes of Boris and Nigel running the country. Damn you Cameron. You have fucked everything up even more than anyone thought possible. May you rot in hell for eternity.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Gottard
Posts: 1306
Joined: October 3rd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Re: In or out?

#103 Post by Gottard » June 24th, 2016, 10:14 am

Have you noticed that polls were right this time: 52 against 48 ! They were only read the other way round by pollsters ! :deadhorse:
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Dave B
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Re: In or out?

#104 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 10:21 am

Alan H wrote:I ranted on Facebook and Twitter last night:

[rant] This referendum has always been about the decades-old internecine war within the Tory Party - and essentially only about that. They have foisted their internal squabbles on the rest of us, causing rifts in families, communities and friendships.

We are all bruised, battered and angry because of this.

But this is par for the course for the Tories. It's what they do; it's what they excel at and always have.

The Tories have spent the last six years breaking this country apart, bit by bit; breaking its citizens; setting one against another; crushing spirits, demolishing morale and selling off hope; taking everything they could from the poor, the unfortunate, the sick, the disabled and the unemployed.

We all need to re-group, reform, and unite against these vile, self-serving, nasty and uncaring Tories.

We all need to unite and make sure the Tories have no more opportunities to further destroy us. [/rant]

David 'call me Dave' Cameron couldn't unite his own party so he broke the EU and broke the UK. He fucked the poor. He fucked the disabled. He fucked the unemployed. (And he fucked a pig.) Now he's fucked the rest of us.

We have been sacrificed to his god of self-servatism and we will all (well, not the rich, obviously) suffer the consequences for generations. We will now have the likes of Boris and Nigel running the country. Damn you Cameron. You have fucked everything up even more than anyone thought possible. May you rot in hell for eternity.
Well, glad you got that off your chest, Alan.

If there a person in tge house (of Commons) that has a remedy for this? I certainly can't think of one.

I view the prospect of Bonkers Boris as PM with the same joy as the prospect of Charlie Boy for king.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: In or out?

#105 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 10:36 am

Dave B wrote:I view the prospect of Bonkers Boris as PM with the same joy as the prospect of Charlie Boy for king.
Or Trump for President.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#106 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 10:53 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#107 Post by Graham R » June 24th, 2016, 2:09 pm

This disgraceful result is a victory for racism.
The E.U. will now offer us the choice of free movement of people or punitive economic terms.
Relish the privilege of existence

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#108 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 2:33 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#109 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 3:08 pm

Alan, where did you get the "...begins moving..." bit from. The article says they deny the move (at the moment). From your link line I took it as an established fact. And, since Dave was a Remainer was this his fault! Ok, can't stand the man either but, surely, if he had his way in this particular the bankers would not have their panties in such a twist.

Now, Gove et al, another story, pile the shit on them as high as you like!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: In or out?

#110 Post by Fia » June 24th, 2016, 3:24 pm

Oh dear, England and Wales Brexit voters. What have you done?

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Alan H
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Re: In or out?

#111 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 3:25 pm

Dave B wrote:
Alan, where did you get the "...begins moving..." bit from. The article says they deny the move (at the moment). From your link line I took it as an established fact. And, since Dave was a Remainer was this his fault! Ok, can't stand the man either but, surely, if he had his way in this particular the bankers would not have their panties in such a twist.

Now, Gove et al, another story, pile the shit on them as high as you like!
That's odd. I copied the headline text... it's now changed. Here's the result in Yahoo's cache:
2016-06-24_15h24_00.png
2016-06-24_15h24_00.png (24.39 KiB) Viewed 1796 times
But it's all Dave's fault because it was him who instigated this unnecessary referendum to try to once and for all appease the Europhobes in his party.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#112 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 4:17 pm

Can't find that Yahoo link to the Indie, every one I can find says "denies". Yahoo is hardly a prime source, might I suggest they are one more step from reality, truth and accuracy than most newspapers?!

Hmm, think the referundum was actually a good idea, if sad at the outcome. The worst part about the actual process was the howling and barking of the poiltical dogs obscuring the facts.

PS
I will not be surprised if the job shifts do happen and, to comply with the rules, they may be justified.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#113 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 4:32 pm

Dave B wrote:Can't find that Yahoo link to the Indie, every one I can find says "denies". Yahoo is hardly a prime source, might I suggest they are one more step from reality, truth and accuracy than most newspapers?!

Hmm, think the referundum was actually a good idea, if sad at the outcome. The worst part about the actual process was the howling and barking of the poiltical dogs obscuring the facts.

PS
I will not be surprised if the job shifts do happen and, to comply with the rules, they may be justified.
PPS
Unless, of course, the Indie misreported, Yahoo logged it, then the Indie withdrew the inaccuracy later?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Re: In or out?

#114 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 4:39 pm

Ok, found the Yahoo link with "has begun" in it but those words do not appear in the linked article.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#115 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 4:53 pm

Dave B wrote:Can't find that Yahoo link to the Indie, every one I can find says "denies". Yahoo is hardly a prime source, might I suggest they are one more step from reality, truth and accuracy than most newspapers?!
The screenshot shows clearly what Yahoo had in its cache, including the title and opening text. This is their search results obtained by their bot and has nothing to do with Yahoo news or anything. The Indy clearly published the article then later changed it.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#116 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 4:59 pm

In fact, a comment backs this up:
xckute

Is it me or have they just changed the headline to this article?

anchorage

Through 180 degrees - not the first time, it has to be said.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: In or out?

#117 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 5:17 pm

By Joshua Rozenberg: Brexit won the vote, but for now we remain in the EU

Well worth reading.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#118 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 5:18 pm

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Can't find that Yahoo link to the Indie, every one I can find says "denies". Yahoo is hardly a prime source, might I suggest they are one more step from reality, truth and accuracy than most newspapers?!
The screenshot shows clearly what Yahoo had in its cache, including the title and opening text. This is their search results obtained by their bot and has nothing to do with Yahoo news or anything. The Indy clearly published the article then later changed it.
Yup, like I suggested, but that still makes search engines unreliable sources if they do not catch up with the latest version and update their cache! Does not say a lot for the newspaper either.

Better to read and quote the latest version of the article itself, on the paper's site, to avoid embarrasment.

I know, bin there ent I. :sad2:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: In or out?

#119 Post by Alan H » June 24th, 2016, 5:33 pm

Dave B wrote:Better to read and quote the latest version of the article itself, on the paper's site, to avoid embarrasment.
But I did! That's where I got the title from. They changed it subsequently.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: In or out?

#120 Post by Dave B » June 24th, 2016, 5:54 pm

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Better to read and quote the latest version of the article itself, on the paper's site, to avoid embarrasment.
But I did! That's where I got the title from. They changed it subsequently.
Ah, then you are a victim of the media changing things without being honest enough to admit it!

Once again, 'swhy I never bother to read the papers for news.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Graham R
Posts: 15030
Joined: April 6th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Re: In or out?

#121 Post by Graham R » June 24th, 2016, 5:55 pm

David Cameron is absolutely to blame for this outcome.
This referendum was totally unnecessary.
The issue is complicated and should have been decided by a group of informed people.
Those people are in the Houses of Parliament not the country.
Now we have the blond buffoon in charge and the possible break-up of the Union.
Relish the privilege of existence

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