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How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#41 Post by Compassionist » February 13th, 2016, 10:03 am

Latest post of the previous page:

John G wrote:
Compassionist wrote:John G, are you familiar with Simulation Hypothesis?
This is the first time I have seen this wiki reference. Thank you. A simulation would be the ultimate Illusion. To the limits of our science, we can't find any evidence to support this hypothesis.

If it were true how would it affect individuals? Religious folks would be happy. Proof of a creator.
What about the atheist or agnostic?
The problem with Simulation Hypothesis is that we can't test whether or not it is true. Hindus regard our perceived reality to be Maya or illusion.

I don't think religious people would indulge in thoughts about reality being a computer simulation - it is not compatible with the worldviews offered by the big religions i.e. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Bahai Faith, Zoroastrianism, etc.

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Dave B
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Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#42 Post by Dave B » February 13th, 2016, 10:22 am

Think I will continue to apply a very pragmatic Occam's Razor to this.

"Metaphysics" tells me more about human nature than it dies about the real universe - much in line with religious belief in that respect :D
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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John G
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Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#43 Post by John G » February 13th, 2016, 12:49 pm

Dave B wrote:
John G wrote:Some science to chew on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YycAzdtUIko#t=394.376
Gave up 3/4 way through!

Ignoring that I don't like that style of presentation a lot of knowledge in the viewer seems to be assumed. If it was intended for the general public, as PBS is supposed to be, there are many more science and maths orientated people in the US than I have been led to believe!

Difficult subject, rocket science class, not a good presentation style, appeals to the "arguments" of the woo merchants IMHO - even if what was offered was correct.
Hi Dave.

I sort of dropped you into the middle of the series. My bad. Not sure it will process any better if you back up to the beginning. The series builds on itself.

Here is something a little older that I found interesting. I arrived here from this series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y75kEf8xLxI

Also, a video of Richard Feynman that I had not seen before. Not sure how I missed it but I did. You would think a youtube search of Feynman would have turned it up. But somehow I missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsgBtOVzHKI

Sort of OT for this thread, but it's Richard Feynman one of my favorite scientists. I like how his mind worked.

The pacing of the PBS presentation certainly can be limiting. Very fast, geared towards the video generation. They state that this stuff is not always easy to grasp and you need to go over it as may times as it takes to sink in. From a personal perspective, I found parts I could follow with little problem and parts that turned to Japanese. I could pick out one word in six if I was lucky.

(There is a reason that I brought this video to this thread. For general interest

http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/vie ... &start=480

would be the place to put these I suspect.)

(Add note: Maybe these videos are geared to folks with Bipolar II disorders. :) )
A good learner is forever walking the narrow path between blindness and hallucination. ― Pedro Domingos, The Master Algorithm

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John G
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Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#44 Post by John G » February 13th, 2016, 1:12 pm

Compassionist wrote:I don't think religious people would indulge in thoughts about reality being a computer simulation - it is not compatible with the worldviews offered by the big religions i.e. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Bahai Faith, Zoroastrianism, etc.
Oddly what brought this up is that very fact. I dug a bit deeper and it appears that religious folks have fewer objects than atheists and agnostics according to one path of research that I followed. Sorry forgot to clip it so I could reference it. It sort of surprised me.
A good learner is forever walking the narrow path between blindness and hallucination. ― Pedro Domingos, The Master Algorithm

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animist
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Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#45 Post by animist » February 13th, 2016, 7:59 pm

the simulation hypothesis stuff about "The Matrix" certainly shows that particular lives can be illusory in many ways. But the point about the simulation hypothesis is that life AS A WHOLE is not an illusion: the machines, aliens or whatever, are part of life, however much they have deceived particular other parts of life. I think the film "Truman" has more conviction about how a particular life might be wilfully made into an illusion; Truman, played by Jim Carrey, is for most of the film the victim of an elaborate hoax for the benefit of bored TV watchers; eventually he escapes the illusion, but even if he had remained in it, and even if the fiction had been a real life-story, it would not prove that life is an illusion, or can be

Compassionist
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Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#46 Post by Compassionist » February 13th, 2016, 8:28 pm

animist wrote:the simulation hypothesis stuff about "The Matrix" certainly shows that particular lives can be illusory in many ways. But the point about the simulation hypothesis is that life AS A WHOLE is not an illusion: the machines, aliens or whatever, are part of life, however much they have deceived particular other parts of life. I think the film "Truman" has more conviction about how a particular life might be wilfully made into an illusion; Truman, played by Jim Carrey, is for most of the film the victim of an elaborate hoax for the benefit of bored TV watchers; eventually he escapes the illusion, but even if he had remained in it, and even if the fiction had been a real life-story, it would not prove that life is an illusion, or can be
I agree.

Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: How Do We Know That Life is Not an Illusion?

#47 Post by Compassionist » February 13th, 2016, 8:29 pm

John G wrote:
Compassionist wrote:I don't think religious people would indulge in thoughts about reality being a computer simulation - it is not compatible with the worldviews offered by the big religions i.e. Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Bahai Faith, Zoroastrianism, etc.
Oddly what brought this up is that very fact. I dug a bit deeper and it appears that religious folks have fewer objects than atheists and agnostics according to one path of research that I followed. Sorry forgot to clip it so I could reference it. It sort of surprised me.
I would like to know more about what you are saying. I am intrigued.

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