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2016 US election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#41 Post by Dave B » March 18th, 2016, 10:06 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Bloody scary.

What will his equivalent to kristalnacht be I wonder?
Indeed. Is he a bumbling buffoon or does he know exactly what he's doing?
Well, he does not have Hitler's power of oratory from what I have heard but, does he need it in the US? He has hit on a rich vein of prejudice that has been suffering a severe, and worsening, aneurysm for a long time.

Even if he loses it could be too late.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#42 Post by Alan H » March 18th, 2016, 11:07 pm

Dave B wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Bloody scary.

What will his equivalent to kristalnacht be I wonder?
Indeed. Is he a bumbling buffoon or does he know exactly what he's doing?
Well, he does not have Hitler's power of oratory from what I have heard but, does he need it in the US? He has hit on a rich vein of prejudice that has been suffering a severe, and worsening, aneurysm for a long time.

Even if he loses it could be too late.
Indeed. I assume Hitler was a good orator (mostly going by his performance on newsreels, etc, not necessarily his words) in the sense he knew how to control a crowd. I suppose Drumf does as well, but in a different way.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#43 Post by Dave B » March 19th, 2016, 8:32 am

Drumf does as well, but in a different way.
I think that Hitler knew how to steer a mob with a twisted kind of logic whereas Trump just feeds existing bias. One led the other follows.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#44 Post by Ken H » March 19th, 2016, 2:28 pm

I wouldn't say Trump is using Hitler's tactics exactly, but the New Republic magazine suggests that NJ Governor Chris Christie, who supports Trump, is his Franz von Papen. Remember that von Papen was the Weimar chancellor who thought Hitler could be civilized once in office! Cristie also has a bombastic personality. He is high on the list as the VP choice should Trump win the nomination. What a combo that would be. :shock:
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#45 Post by Dave B » March 19th, 2016, 3:36 pm

Ken H wrote:I wouldn't say Trump is using Hitler's tactics exactly, but the New Republic magazine suggests that NJ Governor Chris Christie, who supports Trump, is his Franz von Papen. Remember that von Papen was the Weimar chancellor who thought Hitler could be civilized once in office! Cristie also has a bombastic personality. He is high on the list as the VP choice should Trump win the nomination. What a combo that would be. :shock:
Your first sentence agrees with what I think. Hitler was far more skilled in rhetoric than Trump will ever be.

Now, to reiterate a question previously asked: is Trump just talking off the top of what might be, loosely, called "his mind," or does he know exactly what he is saying despite his attempts to excuse his exhortations when challenged?

I think that he does not engage his brain before putting his mouth on the road and tries to back-pedal after. Have there been any speeches by him since the evidence of hiscstirring hatred was placed before him in that interview above? Has he learned? Is he capable of learning? What will he learn?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#46 Post by Alan H » March 27th, 2016, 2:01 am

The most frightening thing you'll ever listen to: Donald Trump’s shocking ignorance, laid bare
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#47 Post by Dave B » March 27th, 2016, 9:42 am

Haven't got beyond the section on libel yet and I am seriously worried.

His hesitant and rambling responses seem to indicate that he has not thought this through. It seems like is talking from personal prejudice rather than considered strategy, let alone logic. The scope for "unexpected consequences" (unexpected hy him) is huge.

Not the stull of leaders, more of dictators.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#48 Post by Alan H » March 27th, 2016, 11:45 am

But did you know that his new building just down the street from a WaPo offices is nearly finished and is two years ahead of schedule and under budget? And it's going to be open two years ahead of schedule? And it's costing less than the original estimates. And he knows some good people in South Korea - he's done business deals there. And he knows how to negotiate. And he's an intelligent man. And did you hear the his new building just next door was two years ahead of schedule and under budget?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#49 Post by Dave B » March 27th, 2016, 12:43 pm

"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#50 Post by Dave B » March 27th, 2016, 12:45 pm

Alan H wrote:But did you know that his new building just down the street from a WaPo offices is nearly finished and is two years ahead of schedule and under budget? And it's going to be open two years ahead of schedule? And it's costing less than the original estimates. And he knows some good people in South Korea - he's done business deals there. And he knows how to negotiate. And he's an intelligent man. And did you hear the his new building just next door was two years ahead of schedule and under budget?
Wow! Really important stuff that needs repeating, eh?

Waiting for analysis of the names of those he wants in his cabinet.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#51 Post by Alan H » March 27th, 2016, 1:41 pm

Dave B wrote:
Alan H wrote:But did you know that his new building just down the street from a WaPo offices is nearly finished and is two years ahead of schedule and under budget? And it's going to be open two years ahead of schedule? And it's costing less than the original estimates. And he knows some good people in South Korea - he's done business deals there. And he knows how to negotiate. And he's an intelligent man. And did you hear the his new building just next door was two years ahead of schedule and under budget?
Wow! Really important stuff that needs repeating, eh?

Waiting for analysis of the names of those he wants in his cabinet.
The man is a complete buffoon. As someone said, Trump is a short-term problem that needs to be dealt with but the longer-term problem is more important: the education system that creates so many who believe Trump is the answer.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#52 Post by Dave B » March 27th, 2016, 5:41 pm

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:
Alan H wrote:But did you know that his new building just down the street from a WaPo offices is nearly finished and is two years ahead of schedule and under budget? And it's going to be open two years ahead of schedule? And it's costing less than the original estimates. And he knows some good people in South Korea - he's done business deals there. And he knows how to negotiate. And he's an intelligent man. And did you hear the his new building just next door was two years ahead of schedule and under budget?
Wow! Really important stuff that needs repeating, eh?

Waiting for analysis of the names of those he wants in his cabinet.
The man is a complete buffoon. As someone said, Trump is a short-term problem that needs to be dealt with but the longer-term problem is more important: the education system that creates so many who believe Trump is the answer.
It also seems to revolve around the American discontent with "big government" and the bigvdivide between the parties.

We have a similar problem but do not have the historical basis of being a nation of federated states with a degree of self-rule. If there a tension between the concept of a nation, state independence and individual rights? There are times when I wonder how the US stays U.

But that could be an influence of my love of future fiction again . . .
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#53 Post by Ken H » March 27th, 2016, 7:42 pm

I believe this election may see the death of the Republican party. It is already fractured into three segments: The disaffected/uneducated group (Trump supporters), the religious right & Tea Party coalition (Cruz), and the mainstreamers, who appear to be in hiding! It would be nice to see it break up and lead to more political parties instead of just two, but that is probably just wishful thinking.

We may see some shenanigans at the GOP convention to try to stop Trump, such as a brokered or contested convention, where no one wins on the first ballot. At that point, most of the delegates can vote for anyone they want. I've heard that if that happens they might bring in someone who is not even running for president. That may not be possible at this point, but if it is, you can expect something bad to happen. Already, there is a petition for delegates to bring guns to the convention. :shock:
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#54 Post by Dave B » March 27th, 2016, 8:42 pm

Well, we are living in interesting times are we not? What odds for fundamental change in global poltics - unfortunately not for the better I fear.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Dave B
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Re: 2016 US election

#55 Post by Dave B » March 28th, 2016, 5:21 pm

Seems Trump reckons Britain and Europe are not safe places, has he looked at the US figures for homicides, accidental shootings, traffic deaths etc and compared them?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#56 Post by Ken H » April 2nd, 2016, 8:25 pm

Dave B wrote:Seems Trump reckons Britain and Europe are not safe places, has he looked at the US figures for homicides, accidental shootings, traffic deaths etc and compared them?
Perhaps he has been watching "Happy Valley", which is currently streaming on Netflix. :wink:

Then again, sociopaths don't worry about making up facts.
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#57 Post by Alan H » April 10th, 2016, 11:14 pm

The Boston Globe published front page from 9 April 2017 issue, envisioning Trump as President:
2016-04-10_23h12_26.png
2016-04-10_23h12_26.png (545.66 KiB) Viewed 2784 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#58 Post by Dave B » April 11th, 2016, 5:12 am

Just don't joke like that!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: 2016 US election

#59 Post by Alan H » April 11th, 2016, 10:38 am

Dave B wrote:Just don't joke like that!
:D

I think it's a stroke of genius...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2016 US election

#60 Post by Dave B » April 11th, 2016, 12:23 pm

Wasn't it the Boston Globe in that series of interview videos after Trump complained about them?

Well, suppose they might as well make sure the complaints have some substance.

Go Globe!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Ken H
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Re: 2016 US election

#61 Post by Ken H » April 29th, 2016, 6:53 pm

Could the US election get any crazier?

The former Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner, spoke of Ted Cruz:
"Lucifer in the flesh," Boehner told Stanford's David Kennedy, a history professor emeritus, according to the Stanford Daily. "I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/ ... -stanford/

Meanwhile, Cruz, thinking he might soon be president, chooses Carly Fiorina as his running mate. Fiorina was the CEO of Hewlett-Packard who ran the company into the ground and then got canned. What a fine team that makes!

Trump, who has vowed to cause trouble at the convention if the Republicans try to deny him the candidacy, would probably pick the equally boisterous Chris Christie as V.P., although he is quite fond of Sarah Palin also.

Interestingly: "Searches for 'Move to Canada' are higher than at any time in Google history".
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-m ... ay-success
This is one of the great social functions of science - to free people of superstition. - Steven Weinberg

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