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Labour leadership election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#61 Post by Dave B » September 16th, 2015, 10:52 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Tetenterre wrote:Astonishing that anyone here thinks that any "flavour" of government is anything other than different buttocks of the same filthy arse. I'll let H.L Mencken speak for me:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: its one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him. If it be aristocratic in organization, then it seeks to protect the man who is superior only in law against the man who is superior in fact; if it be democratic, then it seeks to protect the man who is inferior in every way against both. One of its primary functions is to regiment men by force, to make them as much alike as possible and as dependent upon one another as possible, to search out and combat originality among them. All it can see in an original idea is potential change, and hence an invasion of its prerogatives. The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.
and..
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
:thumbsup:

Yup, no matters what colour their politics are they all look the same shit brown in real daylight.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#62 Post by thundril » September 16th, 2015, 2:14 pm

Tetenterre wrote:Astonishing that anyone here thinks that any "flavour" of government is anything other than different buttocks of the same filthy arse. I'll let H.L Mencken speak for me:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: its one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him. If it be aristocratic in organization, then it seeks to protect the man who is superior only in law against the man who is superior in fact; if it be democratic, then it seeks to protect the man who is inferior in every way against both. One of its primary functions is to regiment men by force, to make them as much alike as possible and as dependent upon one another as possible, to search out and combat originality among them. All it can see in an original idea is potential change, and hence an invasion of its prerogatives. The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.
and..
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
Those whose prime motivation is wielding power over others use real or imagined threats (and mostly the latter) to maintain their positions. Any who wish oppose such power- mongers have two alternatives.. Either to appeal to the power of the oppressed people, or to show their contempt and distrust for the people, seeking instead to promote their individual selves as the heroic revolutionaries. Those who follow this second path inevitably either fail, or become the next generation of oppressors.
I try to keep well away from that shit-smeared footpath between the back-yards of the naive anarchist and the patrician fascist. 'The superior man...' WTF?

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Altfish
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Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#63 Post by Altfish » September 18th, 2015, 8:11 am

I'm warming to Jeremy Corbyn; anyone who refuses to bow /kneel to Queen or sing the National Anthem has to be applauded.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#64 Post by Nick » September 19th, 2015, 7:07 pm

He now appointed a convicted arsonist to his education team....! :supershock:

Scraping the barrel, or what!?

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#65 Post by thundril » September 20th, 2015, 12:09 pm

Nick wrote:He now appointed a convicted arsonist to his education team....! :supershock:

Scraping the barrel, or what!?
Horrible, the way our current political set-up obliges principled politicians to make all sorts of dodgy deals and compromises. We need a serious reestructuring of the democratic process.

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animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#66 Post by animist » September 20th, 2015, 12:29 pm

thundril wrote:
Nick wrote:He now appointed a convicted arsonist to his education team....! :supershock:

Scraping the barrel, or what!?
Horrible, the way our current political set-up obliges principled politicians to make all sorts of dodgy deals and compromises. We need a serious reestructuring of the democratic process.
I think you are both making false jumps here in using (or accepting) language like "scraping the bottom of the barrel". Corbyn no doubt has his reasons for the appointment, and there must have been a plethora of reasonably suitable candidates who had no such criminal conviction. This is not in any way to excuse Watson or justify Corbyn's decision, but I just do not it wise or fair to condemn either of them on the basis of an idiotic and dangerous act at a drunken bash - better to encourage politicians not to drink!

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#67 Post by thundril » September 20th, 2015, 12:39 pm

animist wrote:- better to encourage politicians not to drink!
Easier to overthrow the entire shambolic mess and construct another one than try to dry out politicians. Ain't gonna happen, mate! :laughter:

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#68 Post by Alan H » September 20th, 2015, 3:52 pm

This is getting ridiculous. Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather? In 1867? Really? Jeremy Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather Mismanaged A Victorian Workhouse, Sunday Express Claims
It's the press that needs reformed just as much as politics.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#69 Post by Alan H » September 21st, 2015, 1:15 am

Some light relief from pigs:

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#70 Post by Nick » September 21st, 2015, 12:52 pm

Alan H wrote:This is getting ridiculous. Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather? In 1867? Really? Jeremy Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather Mismanaged A Victorian Workhouse, Sunday Express Claims
It's the press that needs reformed just as much as politics.
Meh. Why should The Express be prevented from publishing this? If readers are daft enough to think it is significant in formulating Corbyn's views, then more fool them.

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Dave B
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Re: Labour leadership election

#71 Post by Dave B » September 21st, 2015, 1:22 pm

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:This is getting ridiculous. Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather? In 1867? Really? Jeremy Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather Mismanaged A Victorian Workhouse, Sunday Express Claims
It's the press that needs reformed just as much as politics.
Meh. Why should The Express be prevented from publishing this? If readers are daft enough to think it is significant in formulating Corbyn's views, then more fool them.
If newspapers are resorting to offering such ancient and irrelevant crap tp their idiot readers then said papers are definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard it leaks!

But then, that's newspapers for yer - still see no reason to waste my money on them.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#72 Post by Fia » September 21st, 2015, 1:51 pm

Best of pig-gate so far I think...
12036378_1659363000944729_6954745594798768185_n.jpg
12036378_1659363000944729_6954745594798768185_n.jpg (15.88 KiB) Viewed 2441 times
:laughter:

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Alan H
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Re: Labour leadership election

#73 Post by Alan H » September 21st, 2015, 2:11 pm

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:This is getting ridiculous. Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather? In 1867? Really? Jeremy Corbyn's Great Great Grandfather Mismanaged A Victorian Workhouse, Sunday Express Claims
It's the press that needs reformed just as much as politics.
Meh. Why should The Express be prevented from publishing this? If readers are daft enough to think it is significant in formulating Corbyn's views, then more fool them.
Who said anything about anyone being prevented from publishing anything?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#74 Post by Alan H » October 9th, 2015, 12:37 am

Alan H wrote:Apparently it was in an email from the Tories, but here's a very slightly different one but with the same lie on their Facebook page:
2015-10-09_00h38_37.png
2015-10-09_00h38_37.png (109.42 KiB) Viewed 2400 times
2015-10-09_00h31_57.png
2015-10-09_00h31_57.png (299.83 KiB) Viewed 2400 times
Context is everything.
Last edited by Alan H on October 9th, 2015, 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to re-attach Tory quotes graphic.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#75 Post by Altfish » October 11th, 2015, 4:00 pm

Labour were out door knocking yesterday in our street. Is this a nationwide strategy or just in our council seat (it is a swing seat) that is being targeted? The bloke that called on us was a local councillor from another Trafford seat.

It is 9-months ahead of the next election, what are they up to. They were interested in what I thought about Corbyn

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#76 Post by thundril » October 11th, 2015, 4:09 pm

It's called democracy. A political group goes door to door asking folk what they think. The folk reply, politely or otherwise. Some active members of the political group get a better idea of what people actually think of them and their policies.
Roll with it.

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Altfish
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Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#77 Post by Altfish » October 11th, 2015, 4:51 pm

thundril wrote:It's called democracy. A political group goes door to door asking folk what they think. The folk reply, politely or otherwise. Some active members of the political group get a better idea of what people actually think of them and their policies.
Roll with it.
Doh! Is that what it is?

I wasn't complaining, I engaged with the canvasser, I just wondered if it was a nationwide event or just our council area.

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