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Labour leadership election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#41 Post by Dave B » September 13th, 2015, 7:00 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:Quick look around the commentators seems to indicate that the "tragedy" comment is at best out of context.
You're being charitable... That was the lie I was alluding to.
But, then what else can one expect of politicians and their spin doctors?
Indeed.
Hmm, yeah, discussing whether or not a quote out of context a lie, a prevarification or whatever doing not make it any the less immoral or unethical.

I refer you to my comment above regards what one might expect...
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#42 Post by Alan H » September 14th, 2015, 11:18 pm

Expert trolling by experts:
2015-09-14_23h17_19.png
2015-09-14_23h17_19.png (316.26 KiB) Viewed 1957 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#43 Post by Nick » September 15th, 2015, 9:22 am

Alan H wrote:You do have to wonder, if the Tories think Corbyn is useless, wrong and unelectable, why they want us to be so scared of him.
A question we can answer. Because, at present, a proportion of the population has been completely taken in by his lunatic policies. In particular, Peoples QE. Either he doesn't understand it, in which case he is ignorant, or he does, in which case he is seemingly determined to wreck the UK economy. Hitting the poor hardest of all.

(For what it's worth, I think he is ignorant.)
Indeed, why are the Tories are so scared of him that they have to lie.
I'm struggling to find the source of this attachment. Can you help, Alan?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#44 Post by Alan H » September 15th, 2015, 10:37 am

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:You do have to wonder, if the Tories think Corbyn is useless, wrong and unelectable, why they want us to be so scared of him.
A question we can answer. Because, at present, a proportion of the population has been completely taken in by his lunatic policies. In particular, Peoples QE. Either he doesn't understand it, in which case he is ignorant, or he does, in which case he is seemingly determined to wreck the UK economy. Hitting the poor hardest of all.

(For what it's worth, I think he is ignorant.)
Others disagree with you, of course.
Indeed, why are the Tories are so scared of him that they have to lie.
I'm struggling to find the source of this attachment. Can you help, Alan?
What attachment?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#45 Post by Dave B » September 15th, 2015, 10:42 am

Alan H wrote:Expert trolling by experts:
2015-09-14_23h17_19.png
Perhaps the difference is that Vladimir might also send in the masked heavy mob and arrest Corbyn et al on dodgy tax evasion charges.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#46 Post by Nick » September 15th, 2015, 11:24 am

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote: (For what it's worth, I think he is ignorant.)
Others disagree with you, of course.
In the same way that homoeopathists disagree with you....
Indeed, why are the Tories are so scared of him that they have to lie.
I'm struggling to find the source of this attachment. Can you help, Alan?
What attachment?
The one to which your remark refers (though attachment may be the wrong word... graphic, perhaps?)

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#47 Post by Alan H » September 15th, 2015, 1:35 pm

Apparently it was in an email from the Tories, but here's a very slightly different one but with the same lie on their Facebook page:
Screenshot from 2015-09-15.png
Screenshot from 2015-09-15.png (162.71 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#48 Post by Dave B » September 15th, 2015, 2:36 pm

"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#49 Post by Alan H » September 15th, 2015, 3:03 pm

Indeed.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#50 Post by thundril » September 15th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Keeping the population under fear of something or other is the most basic tactic of all power-seeking entities. The Ruskies, the terrorists, the immigrants, the unions, the enemy within, dire warnings about thje vulnerability of one of the richest economies in the world. Threats of impoverishment, nuclear attack, Santa Clause boycotting England.... . . .. Security, danger, security, danger, threat, threat, threat... That's all the conservative classes have got.Tragically it is all they need, to keep a sufficient fraction of the population in thrall. Fear is the defining characteristic of Right-wing politics.

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Alan H
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Re: Labour leadership election

#51 Post by Alan H » September 15th, 2015, 3:56 pm

Of course, Jeremy Corbyn is such a grave threat to national security that the Queen has appointed him a member of the Privy Council. Is that the thing about keeping your friends close and your enemies even closer?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#52 Post by Altfish » September 15th, 2015, 4:00 pm

I think the Tories are playing into Corbyn's hands. They are painting him as a total useless danger to the UK.
All he has to do is be less of a threat than they are saying and he is a roaring success.

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#53 Post by Alan H » September 15th, 2015, 4:27 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#54 Post by Dave B » September 15th, 2015, 4:42 pm

Brilliant!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#55 Post by Nick » September 16th, 2015, 2:24 am

Alan H wrote:Apparently it was in an email from the Tories, but here's a very slightly different one but with the same lie on their Facebook page:
Screenshot from 2015-09-15.png
And where's the lie?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#56 Post by Nick » September 16th, 2015, 2:29 am

thundril wrote:Keeping the population under fear of something or other is the most basic tactic of all power-seeking entities. The Ruskies, the terrorists, the immigrants, the unions, the enemy within, dire warnings about thje vulnerability of one of the richest economies in the world. Threats of impoverishment, nuclear attack, Santa Clause boycotting England.... . . .. Security, danger, security, danger, threat, threat, threat... That's all the conservative classes have got.Tragically it is all they need, to keep a sufficient fraction of the population in thrall. Fear is the defining characteristic of Right-wing politics.
And venom, aggression and ignorance is the defining characteristic of the Left.

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Alan H
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Re: Labour leadership election

#57 Post by Alan H » September 16th, 2015, 10:02 am

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:Apparently it was in an email from the Tories, but here's a very slightly different one but with the same lie on their Facebook page:
Screenshot from 2015-09-15.png
And where's the lie?
In front of your nose, Nick.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#58 Post by Alan H » September 16th, 2015, 10:06 am

Nick wrote:
thundril wrote:Keeping the population under fear of something or other is the most basic tactic of all power-seeking entities. The Ruskies, the terrorists, the immigrants, the unions, the enemy within, dire warnings about thje vulnerability of one of the richest economies in the world. Threats of impoverishment, nuclear attack, Santa Clause boycotting England.... . . .. Security, danger, security, danger, threat, threat, threat... That's all the conservative classes have got.Tragically it is all they need, to keep a sufficient fraction of the population in thrall. Fear is the defining characteristic of Right-wing politics.
And venom, aggression and ignorance is the defining characteristic of the Left.
Nah. You're mistaking it for the defense of the poor, the vulnerable, the sick, the less well able and the unfortunate from the continual onslaught of Tory venom, aggression and ignorance.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Tetenterre
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Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Labour leadership election

#59 Post by Tetenterre » September 16th, 2015, 10:49 am

Astonishing that anyone here thinks that any "flavour" of government is anything other than different buttocks of the same filthy arse. I'll let H.L Mencken speak for me:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: its one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him. If it be aristocratic in organization, then it seeks to protect the man who is superior only in law against the man who is superior in fact; if it be democratic, then it seeks to protect the man who is inferior in every way against both. One of its primary functions is to regiment men by force, to make them as much alike as possible and as dependent upon one another as possible, to search out and combat originality among them. All it can see in an original idea is potential change, and hence an invasion of its prerogatives. The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.
and..
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Labour leadership election

#60 Post by Dave B » September 16th, 2015, 10:50 am

Mr Corbyn seems to be sticking to his principles. Not sure how many will be following him though . . .
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Labour leadership election

#61 Post by Dave B » September 16th, 2015, 10:52 am

Tetenterre wrote:Astonishing that anyone here thinks that any "flavour" of government is anything other than different buttocks of the same filthy arse. I'll let H.L Mencken speak for me:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: its one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him. If it be aristocratic in organization, then it seeks to protect the man who is superior only in law against the man who is superior in fact; if it be democratic, then it seeks to protect the man who is inferior in every way against both. One of its primary functions is to regiment men by force, to make them as much alike as possible and as dependent upon one another as possible, to search out and combat originality among them. All it can see in an original idea is potential change, and hence an invasion of its prerogatives. The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.
and..
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
:thumbsup:

Yup, no matters what colour their politics are they all look the same shit brown in real daylight.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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