Migrants via the Tunnel

[Alan H]

Latest post of the previous page:

Owen Jones talks to Calais migrants: "They forget we are human"

[Dave B]

I still cannot understand why Britain is the ultimate target for these people. As I said before as soon as they get on to EU soil much of any political or violent danger dissappears - what it wrong with settling in any other country? I have to admit that I read the feeling that a country which had already rejected one man as being "home" with sceticism (as I read all journalistic output in the field ofvreporting on this type os story.

It's not as is Britain is that great and, in bendfit and public support terms, getting worse. It is currehtly difficult for Asian restuarsnts to "import" kitchen staff, and those people will have a job and accomodation (of sorts) arranged for them.

Are these migrants following a myth?


Additional to my incomplete answer to animist:vI don't do politics. Sociology, psychology, yes - observable reactions of real humans to stimuli and environment rather that a form of thinking based on ideologies generated by groupthink mainly.

Later edit in bold, just to clarify.

[animist]

sorry, Dave, I give up with you. Alan, you keep posting supportive stuff about the immigrants at Calais, but do you think they should be allowed to cross over to this sceptred (septic? sceptic?) isle?

[Dave B]

sorry, Dave, I give up with you. Alan, you keep posting supportive stuff about the immigrants at Calais, but do you think they should be allowed to cross over to this sceptred (septic? sceptic?) isle?

Fair enough, animist, but don't forget that I really do have humanist aims - we very much disagree on method rather than intention.

History has lessons here.

[Alan H]

Alan, you keep posting supportive stuff about the immigrants at Calais, but do you think they should be allowed to cross over to this sceptred (septic? sceptic?) isle?

I think there are several questions and I'm not sure I know the full answers to them:

1. Are we fulfilling out legal commitments and obligations. It seems we don't take that many compared to other EU countries, so it could be we're not living up to what we have promised or are expected to do - we are not playing our part and not taking our share. But I'm not sure I really know the full answer to that - and a good bit of that has to do with which ones are migrants and which are asylum-seekers. There is certainly a distinction in law between them, but that takes us on to...

2. Are we fulfilling our moral obligations to our fellow humans. This seems to cause some consternation, particularly with the Government who would rather wash their hands of it all, build a higher fence, bring in the dogs and leave them to be someone else's problem. Now, it could be we take the attitude that moral obligations are not a function of Government (and it's painfully obvious the current lot by and large take that attitude). However, like many things, there is not a huge amount individuals and non-governmental agencies can do, given the attitude of Government and they certainly can't solve the 'problem' long term. At best, the Government see any moral obligations they have as stopping firmly at our borders.

But both of these still leave the immediate problem: there are humans, for whatever reasons, in dire need of some humanity and help - some aid agencies and, it should be noted, religious organisations - are providing much-needed immediate help. Could we help these particular individuals and families? Of course we could - at the drop of a hat with a barely perceptible impact on anything. But what worries some - or at least some politicians want to plant the fear - is that if we were to take this 'swarm' in, we'd be inundated in the future. But that really is another issue and others have commented on what might happen in the future. But I think that brings us back full circle to my first point: what are our commitments and obligations?

[Alan H]

Whenever you think of migrants arriving in Europe, think of this image

2015-08-19_23h20_53.png (309.23 KiB) Viewed 1650 times

It depicts a Syrian refugee from Deir Ezzor, in tears while holding his son and daughter after arriving on the island of Kos in Greece, on 15 August.

He and his family had travelled on a flimsy inflatable boat carrying around 15 men, women and children.

[Ray]

Reality checks of this kind test the humanist perspective beyond its powers to supply them. One finds significant proportions of the population torn between their own plight; more especially the more compromised their life is already, as opposed to say someone who is comfortably sustained, though not exclusively so. (Some people are successful due their level of bias in their own success period rather than any consideration for the plight of other's per se!)

What's the principle here?

The furtherance of persecution against vulnerable other's feels intrinsically wrong! However the scale of their plight induces fear and doubts about those whom in some cases might not offer you the same level of consideration, were it a choice between you and them - or at least the fear of that possibility. This implies at least some point of critical mass at which you as an individual might behave in some context or other as the bigot would in most cases.

I think this is the trauma we all sense - of having our own humanitarian principles pushed beyond their capabilities.

So inevitably, to the politics of such a gamble - becoming one that will potentially do you a disservice and hardship without thanks; as opposed to your displaying your kindness and it all coming good at some future lifestyle for everyone? In this sense these people are already subject to ourselves playing with words whilst meaning life and death; over their futures.

This is the ultimate irony, that as human numbers increase and strife escalates, the values of the common good are the first to get squashed and disregarded so that what remains as a future, significant and powerful component of whatever governs those who remain; is simply the values of those who somehow get included - for self interest to prevail above the lives of other's!

It is tragic. It is an impossible task unless there is more international will to secure humanist principles, rather than purely capitalist values.

We are largely dependent upon changing the order of how our world functions for everyones benefit; than the few.

It's why we're humanist and not religious: by foundation.

It's what must increase dramatically, to make what we think a more dominant clause in how all people get treated the world over.

[Alan H]

It's OK. The Tories have come up with another whizzo wheeze to solve the crisis: Calais migrant crisis: UK streets are 'not paved with gold' - Theresa May signs £7m deal to stop migrants entering Britain

It includes a commitment by the UK to offer migrants funds for flights back to their home countries, as well as contributing translators to provide refugees with a more realistic sense of life in the UK.

[Alan H]

Why Al Jazeera will not say Mediterranean 'migrants'

'Human beings' or 'people' would be good words to use as well - certainly not swarms or 'marauding migrants'.

[Alan H]

Where Are the Syrian Refugees Today?

[Alan H]

The Daily Express vying for position with the Daily Mail:

2015-08-31_23h15_24.png (378.42 KiB) Viewed 1588 times

They're talking about 2080, but still...

[animist]

The Daily Express vying for position with the Daily Mail:

2015-08-31_23h15_24.png

They're talking about 2080, but still...

well, we could cut the numbers a bit by shooting all those involved with producing (or maybe even buying) these crap organs of opinion

[Alan H]

Thousands of Icelanders Have Volunteered to Take Syrian Refugees Into Their Homes

[animist]

The Daily Express vying for position with the Daily Mail:

2015-08-31_23h15_24.png

They're talking about 2080, but still...

well, we could cut the numbers a bit by shooting all those involved with producing (or maybe even buying) these crap organs of opinion

but hey, I bet if the idiot press decided that population numbers represented national virility then the twats who represent most of the indigenous population would want us to overtake Germany

[Altfish]

Don't expect to see this picture in tomorrow's Mail or Express...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 82757.html


***Warning - not nice photo***

[Alan H]

Warning: the same photo is used here: Make your voice heard: Sign The Independent's petition to welcome refugees

Sign the petition to David 'call me Dave' Cameron here.

Britain must accept its fair share of refugees seeking safety in Europe

Millions of men, women and children are fleeing the Middle East and Africa to find safety in the West. The Independent believes Britain must no longer turn a blind eye to their plight and must work with other European Union countries to set and welcome a quota of refugees.

[Dave B]

I have signed this assuming it relates to genuine refugees, fleeing actual danger to their lives, rather than economic migrants.

But I wish Change would offer an "unsubscribe" link, I wish to be selective in my support and not badgered with emails.

[Alan H]

Refugee crisis: Number of Syrian refugees Britain has taken in would fit on a Tube train

[Alan H]

This refugee crisis was a test for David Cameron. He’s flunked it

In the wake of his stupid words about the “swarm” of people arriving in Calais, can anyone imagine David Cameron saying – and doing – anything halfway comparable? Evidently not: in response to Cooper’s call, he has so far managed only vapid words about trying to “bring peace and stability” to Syria and beyond, and somehow making sure “there are worthwhile jobs and stronger economies there”. If there was any shred left of the progressive, “modernising” politician who wanted to avenge the idea of the “nasty party” and take on the uglier aspects of Labour’s record, this was arguably his moment. The case for an act of principled leadership was glaring. But on the barren political ground left by his predecessors, he flunked it.

[Alan H]

The UK’s stance on the refugee crisis shames us all

Shame on your country, that’s something Germans have long lived with. The British tell only gallant tales about ourselves. Now David Cameron has shamed us all, his nasty party turning our reputation nasty.

[animist]

the estimable Emma Waghorn (aka Emma Woolgatherer) posted on Facebook her recent letter to her MP about the crisis. I am sure she would be happy if anyone adapted her email in order to contact their own MP, and I have done this already:

Email sent to Zac Goldsmith: "It was good to hear David Cameron say today that "Britain is a moral nation and we will fulfil our moral responsibilities". It was good to hear him talking about Britain taking and continuing to take thousands of Syrian refugees. However, the size of the crisis is now so great, with so many people being displaced not only from Syria but also from Eritrea, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq and elsewhere, that fulfilling our moral responsibilities must include taking in significantly more refugees. Yes, we need a comprehensive solution, to reduce the numbers of people who are forced to flee their homelands, but the humanitarian crisis requires a direct and immediate response. At the moment, according to the UNHCR, 80% of the world's refugees are hosted by developing countries. Developed countries have a moral obligation to do much more, and the UK must at least do its fair share within Europe, and not use its island status as a way of pushing responsibility onto other countries. In particular, there needs to be a legal way for refugees to travel to the UK for the specific purpose of claiming asylum.


Please encourage David Cameron to make good on his promise that Britain will fulfil its moral responsibilities. Please do all in your power to make sure that the UK steps up and offers immediate sanctuary to those refugees, a tiny proportion of the world's total, who are in Calais waiting for the opportunity to claim asylum here.

Yours sincerely ..."