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2015 UK General Election

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#741 Post by Dave B » May 12th, 2015, 8:20 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Altfish wrote:Why do we have to have shareholders gaining in a caring industry?
We don't so long as we can keep the money grabbers out!

It is unavoidable that suppliers of materiel etc. have to be paid and will make a (possibly excessive, because that's commercialism) profit.

Once again, do the job at least as well, for no extra cost to the taxpayer, and I can find little to argue about. Can this be achieved, Nick?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan C.
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#742 Post by Alan C. » May 12th, 2015, 9:07 pm

After skimming through this thread, I must say that the NHS is not free, we all pay for it.
Granted, some did say 'free at the point of delivery' Which is what it is and what it should be.
As for privatisation, this is not a new thing, I worked at the West Cumberland Hospital from 1982 till 1984, in 1984 the cleaning contract was put to tender and given to a private firm, I resigned on principal and declined the offer of reinstatement when it was offered.
There were no instances of MRSA prior to privatisation. I could go on... I will.
Dave B
Just how do the privateers reduce the overall cost to the tx-purse then, Nick. How do the reduce that shed-load to a mere barrow-load then?
We used to clean and disinfect the theaters twice a day whether they had been used or not, when the privateers took over, this was reduced to once a month regardless of usage.
I used clean the orthopedic theaters and there would be bits of bone and dried out swabs just swept into a corner to await the cleaning staff.
That's how Dave.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#743 Post by Alan H » May 12th, 2015, 9:54 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#744 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 12:49 am

David Cameron to set out new anti-extremism law
Mr Cameron will say the new powers will make it harder for people to promote extremist views.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone,'" he will say.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

lewist
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#745 Post by lewist » May 13th, 2015, 8:43 am

Alan H wrote:David Cameron to set out new anti-extremism law
Mr Cameron will say the new powers will make it harder for people to promote extremist views.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone,'" he will say.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Mr Cameron's is one of the extremist parties. The Tories have always frightened me.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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Altfish
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#746 Post by Altfish » May 13th, 2015, 9:05 am

It is a worrying law the way they are talking.

Would it include 'militant atheists'?

All it will do is send the really bad guys further underground and make the 'young impressionable recruits' even more curious and more likely to sign up.

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animist
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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#747 Post by animist » May 13th, 2015, 9:24 am

Altfish wrote:It is a worrying law the way they are talking.

Would it include 'militant atheists'?

All it will do is send the really bad guys further underground and make the 'young impressionable recruits' even more curious and more likely to sign up.
when was the last time that a militant atheist threatened human life? But yes, the trap is to drive these guys further underground; proscribing organisations tends to fail, as it did with the IRA, because they are easily reformed. It is better police work that's needed, specially to deal with the technological nous of terrorists and other criminals

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Alan H
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#748 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 10:16 am

Tory officials threatened BBC during election, says Miliband's strategist
Conservative officials threatened the BBC with far-reaching reforms, such as changes to the licence fee funding system, if it did not alter the political balance of its coverage of the general election campaign, Tom Baldwin, one of Ed Miliband’s senior advisers, has claimed.
Baldwin reveals one reason he feels confident that the BBC does not contain a leftwing bias is that he fought and lost a daily battle with the BBC about its coverage of the campaign.

He writes: “Far from being in the pocket of Labour, the BBC was too easily swayed by newspapers that support the Tories and are heavily invested in Labour’s defeat.”

He discloses the party’s biggest dispute with the BBC during the campaign was over “the prominence it gave to the idea of a deal between Labour and the SNP that was never on the cards”.

He writes: “After the first 237 incarnations on news bulletins, I struggled to see how this theme could be developed further, yet the BBC continued to lead with speculation about bizarre consequences of a Labour-SNP government for the economy, tax, and even road schemes.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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animist
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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#749 Post by animist » May 13th, 2015, 11:00 am

Alan H wrote:Tory officials threatened BBC during election, says Miliband's strategist
Conservative officials threatened the BBC with far-reaching reforms, such as changes to the licence fee funding system, if it did not alter the political balance of its coverage of the general election campaign, Tom Baldwin, one of Ed Miliband’s senior advisers, has claimed.
appalling if true - were any records kept of these threats?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#750 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 11:04 am

Minister of State for Employment, Priti Patel, evading the question whether she still supports capital punishment.



She says it was 'a long time ago'. It was 2011.



She obviously has no clue about evidence.

ETA: Just listened to Patel's BBC Question Time performance. She is utterly clueless and ignorant.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#751 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 11:58 am

Theresa May's plans are a threat to British values
This is how David Cameron will address the National Security Council today:

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."

This, incredibly enough, is how the prime minister is opening his argument for protecting British values. In fact, these words were released in advance to the media, suggesting he does not see the irony. What he has described above is as effective a definition of British values as exists. It is a free society: follow the law and the state will leave you alone. It is remarkable that a supposedly Conservative politician would not recognise that.

He now he plans to dismantle this notion in the name of British values. The government plans to interfere with legal behaviour.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

stevenw888
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Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#752 Post by stevenw888 » May 13th, 2015, 2:29 pm

Oh dear. You guys do seem to be particularly upset that a democratically elected goverment is now rolling out its plans to govern. Perhaps we should all call for another election so that this time you get the result that you want.
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#753 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 2:35 pm

stevenw888 wrote:Oh dear. You guys do seem to be particularly upset that a democratically elected goverment is now rolling out its plans to govern. Perhaps we should all call for another election so that this time you get the result that you want.
:laughter:

Yes, they are in power. That doesn't mean we should obediently and meekly accept what they throw at us, doffing our caps, never criticising it.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#754 Post by Alan H » May 13th, 2015, 3:52 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#755 Post by Dave B » May 13th, 2015, 5:11 pm

Alan H wrote:
stevenw888 wrote:Oh dear. You guys do seem to be particularly upset that a democratically elected goverment is now rolling out its plans to govern. Perhaps we should all call for another election so that this time you get the result that you want.
:laughter:

Yes, they are in power. That doesn't mean we should obediently and meekly accept what they throw at us, doffing our caps, never criticising it.
I wonder if those who voted blue are all happy, or was it a case that, more so than usual, there was no other real choice?

We have the creme of the crap in charge. Hobson's choice.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

stevenw888
Posts: 694
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#756 Post by stevenw888 » May 13th, 2015, 5:17 pm

We have the creme of the crap in charge. Hobson's choice.
I agree wholeheartedly Dave. Twas a poor choice indeed that we were offered in the last election. Perhaps Russell Brand will come good in time for the next one and form his own political party. Maybe then, we'll have better choices. However I remember saying this in 1979 - and all I got was the SDP!


Edit: Also, very glad to see the back of Pickles!
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#757 Post by Alan H » May 14th, 2015, 10:23 am

From the satirical NewsThump: Tories accidentally ban themselves under new anti-extremism laws
The incoming Conservative Government is to be immediately disbanded after it was discovered they’re illegal under new laws forbidding ‘extremist groups’.

“Frankly, it’s all a bit embarrassing,” Prime Minister David Cameron told the Today programme.

“We rushed in new powers to ban any groups with extreme views that threaten the fabric of society.”

“It was meant to sort out all these dodgy Muslim johnnies that the last Labour Government flooded the country with, but then it leaked that Gove wants to bring back hanging.”

“We never dreamed we’d be affected, firstly because we’re 99% white and not very beardy, and secondly, because multi-millionaires are above the law anyway.”

Extremism banned

The unfortunate news reached Number 10 after several leading lawyers examined the draft Bill in detail and concluded that summary executions, instituting forced labour for sick and disabled people and abolishing all human rights was “a bit Hitler-y”.

All the lawyers involved were subsequently also banned by Downing Street as ‘enemies of the state’.

Fresh elections are expected to be held within 6 weeks, with pundits predicting a landslide victory for more moderate parties, like UKIP and the EDL.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: 2015 UK General Election

#758 Post by Nick » May 14th, 2015, 10:52 am

Did anyone see Rory Bremner last night? Very funny! :laughter:

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Alan H
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#759 Post by Alan H » May 14th, 2015, 10:52 am

On a more serious note, in the Torygraph: Making an opinion illegal is not going to stop terrorism
If 'British values' mean anything, they must prevent us from legislating against non-violent views that we find abhorrent
In essence, these measures target those who operate in what the police have called the “pre-criminal space” and therefore expand the definition of people who could be incarcerated from those who do bad things to those who think bad things. This is problematic for a number of reasons.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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animist
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#760 Post by animist » May 14th, 2015, 11:33 am

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/may ... servatives

"Scottish government source warns there could be a complete standoff as Holyrood says it will withhold legislative consent" to the scrapping of the Human Right Act

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Alan H
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Re: 2015 UK General Election

#761 Post by Alan H » May 14th, 2015, 1:22 pm

animist wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/may ... servatives

"Scottish government source warns there could be a complete standoff as Holyrood says it will withhold legislative consent" to the scrapping of the Human Right Act
Since it's integral to the Scotland Act, the Tories would need to get that changed as well. I assume thy will just try the bulldozer technique.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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