INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used. For further information, see our Privacy Policy. Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

Tony Benn dead

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
Message
Author
User avatar
getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#21 Post by getreal » March 15th, 2014, 9:12 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

He was that very rare thing: an honest politician.

I had the privilege of hearing him speak at paisley university a few years ago with my father. He was quite frail and was helped to the stage, but he spoke for over an hour with no notes whatsoever. He then spent 30 mins answering questions from the audience.


A sad day indeed.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24054
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#22 Post by Alan H » March 16th, 2014, 12:35 pm

The cartoon from the Independent:
2014-03-16_12h34_47.png
2014-03-16_12h34_47.png (452.75 KiB) Viewed 1435 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Tetenterre
Posts: 3244
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Tony Benn dead

#23 Post by Tetenterre » March 17th, 2014, 12:37 pm

I met him once in the '70s - an acquaintance was working for him. At the time, I was about to go up to the Torness anti-nuclear demos and challenged him on his pro-nuclear stance (IIRC, he was Energy Secretary at the time). To my surprise, he listened to what I had to say, then proceeded, respectfully, to explain why he thought I was wrong. He came across as a thoroughly decent human being. I did not then and do not now agree with most of his politics, but I respect him as a man of integrity who stood by what he thought was right.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24054
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#24 Post by Alan H » March 18th, 2014, 5:15 pm

2014-03-18_17h14_18.png
2014-03-18_17h14_18.png (710.94 KiB) Viewed 1419 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

stevenw888
Posts: 694
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#25 Post by stevenw888 » March 25th, 2014, 12:29 pm

Interesting. I’ve just read through this thread and noted the differing comments. I personally could not abide the political stance of Tony Benn, but I always admired him as a person, probably because he had the conviction of his convictions.

However Matthew Paris raised a very interesting point in the Times last Saturday. He contrasted the news of Tony Benn’s death with the news of Margaret Thatcher’s death, announced last August.

His points are valid and worth repeating here. When Thatcher died last August, people from the left were (generally) all happy to say “Oh I’m glad she’s dead. She was horrible. We hated her, and we hated her political convictions. How pleased we are that the Witch is dead.”

Contrast this with comments after the death of Tony Benn. From the BBC webpage:-

“Prime Minister David Cameron has led tributes to Labour veteran Tony Benn, who has died aged 88.
He said on Twitter: "Tony Benn was a magnificent writer, speaker and campaigner. There was never a dull moment listening to him, even if you disagreed with him."”

Boris Johnson made similar comments. I read no nasty statements either in the press or online following Benn’s death.

So what are we to make of this? There are various conclusions we could draw. People to the Right in politics are more polite than people to the Left of politics. People to the Right of politics are more respectful of other people’s opinions than people to the Left of politics. Or maybe – People on the left of politics think it’s ok to hate and detest people on the right because of their convictions, but people on the right feel differently.
From where I stand there is little to choose between Thatcher and Benn. Both placed their political convictions higher than their loyalty to the party. Both held deeply held views and were reluctant to change, even in the face of opposing evidence. Why then do their deaths provoke such differing reactions?
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24054
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#26 Post by Alan H » March 25th, 2014, 12:49 pm

stevenw888 wrote:From where I stand there is little to choose between Thatcher and Benn. Both placed their political convictions higher than their loyalty to the party. Both held deeply held views and were reluctant to change, even in the face of opposing evidence. Why then do their deaths provoke such differing reactions?
One was Prime Minister and had the power to impose her odious beliefs on us; the other didn't.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Tony Benn dead

#27 Post by Altfish » March 25th, 2014, 1:26 pm

Alan H wrote:
stevenw888 wrote:From where I stand there is little to choose between Thatcher and Benn. Both placed their political convictions higher than their loyalty to the party. Both held deeply held views and were reluctant to change, even in the face of opposing evidence. Why then do their deaths provoke such differing reactions?
One was Prime Minister and had the power to impose her odious beliefs on us; the other didn't.
Spot on

stevenw888
Posts: 694
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#28 Post by stevenw888 » March 25th, 2014, 3:04 pm

I would rather manage with the legacy of the odious beliefs of Thatcher than I would of Benn. I can't begin to imagine what kind of trouble we'd be in now if we'd followed the odious beliefs of Benn.
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#29 Post by Dave B » March 25th, 2014, 4:04 pm

Well, when you are in it shit is shit - whatever the colour.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Tony Benn dead

#30 Post by Nick » March 25th, 2014, 4:17 pm

Dave B wrote:Well, when you are in it shit is shit - whatever the colour.
....usually brown..... :exit:

User avatar
Tetenterre
Posts: 3244
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Tony Benn dead

#31 Post by Tetenterre » March 25th, 2014, 4:36 pm

Nick wrote:
Dave B wrote:Well, when you are in it shit is shit - whatever the colour.
....usually brown.....
ITYM ...usually Brown and Balls..... :exit:
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

stevenw888
Posts: 694
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#32 Post by stevenw888 » March 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm

http://forum.thinkhumanism.com/posting. ... =15&t=6519#

this is supposed to be a face pointing upwards and laughing
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Tony Benn dead

#33 Post by Nick » March 27th, 2014, 6:03 pm

Tetenterre wrote: ITYM ...usually Brown and Balls..... :exit:
If you discover Balls, it's probably worse than just a loose bowel movement..... :supershock:

stevenw888
Posts: 694
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Re: Tony Benn dead

#34 Post by stevenw888 » March 28th, 2014, 3:14 pm

This is what I shall remember the great Tony Benn for..

From an internet article on the subject of Radio Caroline, which started broadcasting 50 years ago today...

"Over the past 50 years much has changed. Caroline has come and gone in various guises (yes, it still exists today online and on satellite). Other “pirate” stations followed and were closed down by legislation pushed through by the late Tony Benn as “Postmaster General” (how antiquated does that title sound!). "

Thanks Tony for closing down a radical new idea that threatened the BBC and the establishment!
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

Post Reply