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The future of Government (if any)

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2141 Post by Alan H » July 16th, 2015, 3:18 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2142 Post by thundril » July 16th, 2015, 3:29 pm

thundril wrote:I was not asking for clarification of some specific word or phrase., Nick. I was inviting you to explain and defend the statement, which you have now done. Thank you. I will present my further argument in the light of this. I'll try to get it done today.
a-few-thoughts-about-work-and-human-needs All comments and criticisms welcome.

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2143 Post by Alan H » July 16th, 2015, 11:14 pm

Just when you thought the Tories couldn't be any more despicable. The BBC's Dominic Casciani has just Tweeted:
Minsters just announced via parliamentary procedure they're cutting support for asylum seekers & their children:
2015-07-16_23h04_12.png
2015-07-16_23h04_12.png (51.38 KiB) Viewed 862 times
Disgusting. Thoroughly disgusting. But then again, why should anyone be surprised.

More here: Asylum seekers with children to have support payments cut
Ministers said the cuts, which would affect more than 27,800 destitute asylum seekers, were being made because the current payment system resulted in families with children in particular receiving “significantly more cash than is necessary” to meet their essential living needs.

The Refugee Council described the cuts as “utterly appalling” for families who were not allowed to work and said they would plunge children further into poverty: “We suspect the only place that families can live on this amount of money is in the imagination of government ministers,” the council’s policy officer, Judith Dennis, said.
In other news: MPs To Get 10% Backdated Pay Rise To £74,000
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2144 Post by thundril » July 16th, 2015, 11:54 pm

Alan H wrote:Just when you thought the Tories couldn't be any more despicable. The BBC's Dominic Casciani has just Tweeted:
Minsters just announced via parliamentary procedure they're cutting support for asylum seekers & their children:
2015-07-16_23h04_12.png
Disgusting. Thoroughly disgusting. But then again, why should anyone be surprised.

More here: Asylum seekers with children to have support payments cut
Ministers said the cuts, which would affect more than 27,800 destitute asylum seekers, were being made because the current payment system resulted in families with children in particular receiving “significantly more cash than is necessary” to meet their essential living needs.

The Refugee Council described the cuts as “utterly appalling” for families who were not allowed to work and said they would plunge children further into poverty: “We suspect the only place that families can live on this amount of money is in the imagination of government ministers,” the council’s policy officer, Judith Dennis, said.

In other news: MPs To Get 10% Backdated Pay Rise To £74,000
Bastards! Utter, detestable bastards!

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
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Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2145 Post by Dave B » July 17th, 2015, 9:09 am

Their Victorian predecessors would be proud of them!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2146 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 9:58 am

Dave B wrote:Their Victorian predecessors would be proud of them!
I think we can expect VirginWorkHouses™ any day soon...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2147 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 10:09 am

High court rules data retention and surveillance legislation unlawful
Emergency surveillance legislation introduced by the coalition government last year had been found to be illegal by the high court.

A judicial challenge by the Labour MP Tom Watson and the Conservative MP David Davis has overturned the Data Retention and Investigatory Act 2014. The judges ruled that days retention powers in the legislation are inconsistent with EU laws.

The government has been ordered to pass new legislation that must come into effect by the end of next March.
The government has been ordered to pass new legislation that must come into effect by the end of next March.

In their challenge, supported by the human rights organisation Libery, Davis and Watson argued that the law allows the police and security services to spy on citizens without proper safeguards.

They argued that the legislation was incompatible with article eight of the European convention on human rights, the right to respect for private and family life, and articles seven and eight of the EU charter of fundamental rights, respect for private and family life and protection of personal data.
Yet another reason the Tories will use to get rid of the HRA.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2148 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 1:06 pm

Whoosh! There it goes.

Freedom of information: new Commission
The Commission’s terms of reference are as follows:
The Commission will review the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (‘the Act’) to consider whether there is an appropriate public interest balance between transparency, accountability and the need for sensitive information to have robust protection, and whether the operation of the Act adequately recognises the need for a ‘safe space’ for policy development and implementation and frank advice. The Commission may also consider the balance between the need to maintain public access to information, and the burden of the Act on public authorities, and whether change is needed to moderate that while maintaining public access to information.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2149 Post by Altfish » July 17th, 2015, 1:13 pm

It's an agenda set by the Daily Mail

BBC
NHS
HRA
FoI

Dark times...which are set to go on for many years the way Labour are shaping up.

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2150 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 1:16 pm

Altfish wrote:It's an agenda set by the Daily Mail

BBC
NHS
HRA
FoI

Dark times...which are set to go on for many years the way Labour are shaping up.
Benefits and asylum seekers. You missed benefits and asylum seekers.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2151 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 2:03 pm

From Citizens Advice: Welfare reform impact analysis
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2152 Post by Alan H » July 17th, 2015, 4:49 pm

thundril wrote:Bastards! Utter, detestable bastards!
But life on a salary of just £1,731 is so dreadfully, dreadfully difficult... £1,731 a week, that is: Tory minister says £90,000 salary left him "counting the pennies"
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2153 Post by Dave B » July 17th, 2015, 5:18 pm

Oh, dear, poor chap. Perhaps he had to buy Prosecco insteads of Moet?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2154 Post by thundril » July 17th, 2015, 9:06 pm

You do realise that's not much more than £10 an hour, don't you? Why, the new living wage is comparable to that, don't y know?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2155 Post by Dave B » July 17th, 2015, 9:54 pm

Er, £100/hour? That'if he worked 24/7.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2156 Post by Alan H » July 18th, 2015, 12:40 am

Front page of Saturday's Independent:
Screenshot from 2015-07-18.png
Screenshot from 2015-07-18.png (392.02 KiB) Viewed 820 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Lord Muck oGentry
Posts: 634
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 3:48 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2157 Post by Lord Muck oGentry » July 18th, 2015, 12:59 am

Alan H wrote:Whoosh! There it goes.

Freedom of information: new Commission
The Commission’s terms of reference are as follows:
The Commission will review the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (‘the Act’) to consider whether there is an appropriate public interest balance between transparency, accountability and the need for sensitive information to have robust protection, and whether the operation of the Act adequately recognises the need for a ‘safe space’ for policy development and implementation and frank advice. The Commission may also consider the balance between the need to maintain public access to information, and the burden of the Act on public authorities, and whether change is needed to moderate that while maintaining public access to information.
See words change their meaning before your very eyes!
What we can't say, we can't say and we can't whistle it either. — Frank Ramsey

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2158 Post by Alan H » July 18th, 2015, 10:44 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2159 Post by Dave B » July 18th, 2015, 1:04 pm

And that's only this time round?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2160 Post by Alan H » July 19th, 2015, 8:37 pm

From the 'You couldn't make it up' department: the Independent Commission on Freedom of Information is not subject to Freedom of Information requests.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of Government (if any)

#2161 Post by Dave B » July 19th, 2015, 8:43 pm

:headbang:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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