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Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Dave B
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Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#1 Post by Dave B » July 14th, 2012, 8:55 am

Moving an OT discussion from "Good video links" because it seems to be of interest . . .

Kismet wrote
Clear thinking avoids reality.
Sel wrote
You are joking, right?
Kismet, you are beginning to sound like a Texas Republican. Their current platform states they are opposed to the teaching of higher order thinking skills and critical thinking in public schools.
Kismet wrote
I can only speak from experience... It seems to me, that when it comes to philosophy (and not practical, merely mundane matters) clear thinking is itself an impediment to thought. Intuition must triumph in the end, not reason. And intuition by its very nature is messier and unclear, unless it happens to come about at just the opportune moment.
Altfish wrote
If that is what you think, that explains alot. Wow :exit:
Gottard wrote
Kisamet: personally, I compare my experience with other people's experiences - people of different cultures - just to understand where I am with my thoughts or beliefs. It is a sign of modesty!
OK, big spoon to muddy the waters: to function in the world does not need both intuition and reason? Edison said that inventing was "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration", "inspiration" is close enough to ""intuition" for this purpose I think.

I think that "intuition" is essential when dealing with people and can give us clues in other areas - though it may be confused with other innate skills and abilities - like De Bono's "lateral thinking" which seems to be based on intuition but I think is based on far more mundane mental skills, it just seems amazing that some can extract concrete reason out of seeming confusion or dissimilarity.

Could we exist without clear thinking, reason, without structure in our world? I don't think so - but it would be a sorry place if we sat and analysed, considered every idea or action before making it! For me intuition is largely backed up by reason, not the other way round. When time and circumstances allow one can delve into the abstract to back the concrete with profit.

Horses for courses!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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animist
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#2 Post by animist » July 14th, 2012, 4:09 pm

Dave B wrote: Could we exist without clear thinking, reason, without structure in our world? I don't think so - but it would be a sorry place if we sat and analysed, considered every idea or action before making it! For me intuition is largely backed up by reason, not the other way round. When time and circumstances allow one can delve into the abstract to back the concrete with profit.

Horses for courses!
yes, intuition is a sort of shortcircuiting of more plodding and methodical reasoning to solve some problem, but there is no guarantee that an intuition is correct - reason is there to check that it is. If the intuition is for something risky especially, we need reason to steady it or justify it - for instance, if the intuitive person has often been right before, that is reason to trust their intuition even if we cannot see it ourselves.

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Dave B
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#3 Post by Dave B » July 14th, 2012, 5:05 pm

I can only agree with you, animist, though I have based some very risky risks on intuition when the alternative was going to be (sometimes physically) very nasty anyway!

An old report said, "David has an intuitive grasp of analysis." I prefer to think it was the product of years of poking my nose into everything and seeking the "WHY?" - sharpening and tuning that curiosity as I got older. The copper's hunch can be an unconscious analysis of small clues, maybe disparate and subliminal ones, that experience allows him to synthesize into something he feels confident enough to follow. Conan-Doyle gave Holmes a rather strong faculty, backed with encyclopaedic knowledge, in this respect.

So, is there a link between intuition and (unconscious maybe) analytical function; do intuitive people also tend towards the analytical?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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animist
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#4 Post by animist » July 14th, 2012, 5:25 pm

Dave B wrote:I can only agree with you, animist, though I have based some very risky risks on intuition when the alternative was going to be (sometimes physically) very nasty anyway!

An old report said, "David has an intuitive grasp of analysis." I prefer to think it was the product of years of poking my nose into everything and seeking the "WHY?" - sharpening and tuning that curiosity as I got older. The copper's hunch can be an unconscious analysis of small clues, maybe disparate and subliminal ones, that experience allows him to synthesize into something he feels confident enough to follow. Conan-Doyle gave Holmes a rather strong faculty, backed with encyclopaedic knowledge, in this respect.

So, is there a link between intuition and (unconscious maybe) analytical function; do intuitive people also tend towards the analytical?
well yes, I think that it is probably a pretty dubious dichotomy to make reason and intuition into polar opposites (which shows the crappiness of Kismet's comment). To analyse a problem, both methodical reasoning and sudden flashes of intuition are necessary and complementary

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Kismet
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#5 Post by Kismet » July 14th, 2012, 5:52 pm

Intuition is not instinct; it is not of this world; partaking of the possible and not the actual...and ultimately, collapsing both...

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Dave B
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#6 Post by Dave B » July 14th, 2012, 6:11 pm

Intuition is not instinct;
I agree with you, on that bit anyway.

Just included it because it seemed to be in a similar bracket where human behaviour is concerned - a response that may seem to have no immediate or obvious stimulus yet feels "logical" at the time.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Altfish
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#7 Post by Altfish » July 14th, 2012, 8:20 pm

Kismet wrote:Intuition is not instinct; it is not of this world; partaking of the possible and not the actual...and ultimately, collapsing both...
Kismet, once again, I read one of your posts 3 times and I still don't understand it, am I a little thick (I don't think so) or do you write in double-dutch?

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Alan H
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#8 Post by Alan H » July 14th, 2012, 10:00 pm

Kismet wrote:...it is not of this world...
Well, that's the end of that argument, then.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Kismet
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#9 Post by Kismet » July 14th, 2012, 10:57 pm

Altfish wrote:
Kismet wrote:Intuition is not instinct; it is not of this world; partaking of the possible and not the actual...and ultimately, collapsing both...
Kismet, once again, I read one of your posts 3 times and I still don't understand it, am I a little thick (I don't think so) or do you write in double-dutch?
Intuition comes from the non-local space that is beyond time... That is why it can cohere disparate elements thoughtlessly... because it fastens them together by the unity of the One Self; Being without a second.

Think of the fastest program multiplied by infinity.

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Dave B
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#10 Post by Dave B » July 14th, 2012, 11:00 pm

Yeah, OK, if you say so.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: Intuition/instinct v reason/clear thinking

#11 Post by Alan H » July 14th, 2012, 11:11 pm

Kismet wrote:Intuition comes from the non-local space that is beyond time...
And where/when is that and how do you know?
That is why it can cohere disparate elements thoughtlessly...
It being from 'the non-local space that is beyond time' does not explain this. Can you explain the properties of 'the non-local space that is beyond time' that give intuition the property of being able to 'cohere disparate elements thoughtlessly' (whatever that actually means)?
because it fastens them together by the unity of the One Self; Being without a second.
Ditto.
Think of the fastest program multiplied by infinity.
Or the slowest program multiplied by infinity.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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