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The future of the NHS (if any)

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1341 Post by Alan H » September 20th, 2015, 11:33 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Why are NHS doctors furious about their new contracts?
The most dangerous and demoralising aspect of the contract isn’t actually the pay cut, but the changes to our working conditions. Incredibly, Saturday no longer counts as the weekend, and will from next August be paid only at basic rate. This paves the way for hospitals to force us to work as many Saturdays as they please, now any financial disincentive not to do so has been removed. Even before these changes, I already work every other Saturday. According to the government we also no longer deserve higher rate antisocial hours pay for working evenings, unless we stay later than 10pm. Breaks will be cut to just 20 minutes every 6 hours.

Most disturbingly of all, hospitals will no longer be penalised for forcing doctors to stay well beyond their contracted hours, working for longer than what was previously considered fair or safe. Doctors working overtime will lose any right to be paid for it. I can’t imagine any logical reason for bringing in this change other than to force us to work dangerous extra hours for free, sacrificing patient safety and staff wellbeing in the interests of cost saving.

The Government are referring to this contract as being for “junior” doctors. To most members of the public this implies a carefree 24 year old just out of med school, but in fact junior by this definition includes all doctors at any stage of their training who have not yet made it all the way to consultant or GP. It usually takes at least 10 years to become a hospital consultant, sometimes a great deal longer. In reality, our time on this harsh “junior” contract takes us through all of our 20s and much of our 30s. The earliest I could possibly hope to escape is by age 34, and that’s if I dutifully jump through the many hoops, pass all postgraduate exams in time, give up my dream of taking time out to do humanitarian work and most importantly, don’t have kids.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1342 Post by Alan H » September 22nd, 2015, 12:38 am

Obliquely related to the NHS in that this is about pricing of drugs by pharmaceutical companies: Hedge Fund Manager Acquires Rights To Life-Saving AIDS Drug, Increases Price By 5,000 Percent
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1343 Post by Dave B » September 22nd, 2015, 10:17 am

Well, surely profit trumps humanity?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1344 Post by Alan H » September 22nd, 2015, 11:41 am

Jeremy Hunt’s hit squad is a danger to our national health
McNeil is not creeping away shamefaced, not gagged, but standing and fighting back – as should more chief executives before their heads are knocked off too. He calls Addenbrooke’s quality of treatment “phenomenal”, the inspection/regulation regime “Kafkaesque” and the NHS wasteful of money on its purchaser-provider commissioning system. The cuts in council social care are now blocking 200 of his beds, he says, with people lacking care at home. The CQC, he says, “has lost all sense of proportion. We do half a million operations a year, with excellent outcomes. Of course we won’t get everything 100% right.” That’s common sense, but those are brave words in the current climate of bullying and shame in the NHS, fostered by Hunt and carried through by his CQC. No wonder there’s a shortage of people willing to take chief executive posts.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1345 Post by Alan H » September 22nd, 2015, 12:48 pm

Dave B wrote:Well, surely profit trumps humanity?
Well, that didn't last long: Big Price Increase for Tuberculosis Drug Is Rescinded
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1346 Post by Dave B » September 22nd, 2015, 1:35 pm

One down, one to go!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1347 Post by Alan H » September 22nd, 2015, 9:21 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1348 Post by Dave B » September 22nd, 2015, 9:29 pm

Serial hiker then! Hope he stumbles.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1349 Post by Alan H » September 22nd, 2015, 11:39 pm

NHS wasting £450m on 'mid-life MOT' health checks, doctors say
The “mid-life MOTs” are a waste of time, widely ignored by patients and not based on sound evidence, and the money would be better spent encouraging people to eat more healthily to reduce their risk offalling seriously ill, they say.

The NHS introduced health checks in England in 2009 as a way of identifying if middle-aged and older people were at risk of heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease, stroke or dementia, and intervening to reduce the chances of that happening.

Since 2013 it has paid local authorities to carry them out, and they use doctors, nurses, pharmacists and healthcare assistants to carry them out. Qualifying patients are offered one every five years.

But a report by three leading medics says the examinations are “costly and ineffective” and prevent as few as 1,000 deaths a year from the conditions they are meant to spot.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1350 Post by Alan H » September 23rd, 2015, 3:27 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1351 Post by Alan H » September 23rd, 2015, 9:25 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1352 Post by Alan H » September 24th, 2015, 5:12 pm

The 5 reasons Addenbrookes really ‘failed’ – and what it means for the whole NHS
Disgraceful attempts by The Sun to blame, 'name and shame' NHS staff for failings are designed to obscure the ideological idiocy being imposed from Westminster.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1353 Post by Dave B » September 24th, 2015, 5:54 pm

Well, that's what you get when you commercialise health care, greedy people milking the system for max profits - bugger the patients and their needs!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1354 Post by thundril » September 24th, 2015, 11:53 pm

Unfettered capitalism is wonderful unless you are poor, ill, uneducated, or just unlucky. In any of those circumstances, unfettered capitalism is shit. IOW, unfettered capitalism is great if you are rich,and lucky, and you don't give a shit about anybody other than your disgusting little self. Other than that, unfettered capitalism is shit. Got it yet?

Nick
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1355 Post by Nick » September 25th, 2015, 12:22 am

Except, of course, that it is not socialism which has raised literally billions out of poverty, in China, India, Africa and every other part of the world, but the operation of the markets. Imperfect? Certainly, but not as comprehensively disastrous as socialism and its fellow travellers. Everywhere it was tried, millions starved to death. Not exactly a recommendation.

thundril
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1356 Post by thundril » September 25th, 2015, 2:00 am

Yes, Nick. We've been through this several times. I, as a critic of capitalism, am not proposing State Stalinism as an alternative. You know this very well. (Unless you have just not been paying attention.)
Some psychopath could plead, 'Oh, I only murdered twenty people. But look at Hitler!'
As a defence, that doesn't work very well, does it?
Capitalism may or may not have caused as much desolation, war and starvation as Stalinism caused. It's an open question.
But saying you haven't killed as many people as Hitler isn't a very good defence, is it?

So, once more, with feeling.
Capitalist apolgists often claim that the free market is the way to end poverty. But you have stated plainly, on this forum, that capitalism would not work if noone was threatened with poverty. (OK, you also said 'neither would any other system'. Or words to that effect.)
So. To clear up an apparent contradiction. In your opinion, could capitalism operate even if nobody was threatened with homelessness or hunger?

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Dave B
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1357 Post by Dave B » September 25th, 2015, 12:50 pm

thundril wrote:Yes, Nick. We've been through this several times. I, as a critic of capitalism, am not proposing State Stalinism as an alternative. You know this very well. (Unless you have just not been paying attention.)
Some psychopath could plead, 'Oh, I only murdered twenty people. But look at Hitler!'
As a defence, that doesn't work very well, does it?
Capitalism may or may not have caused as much desolation, war and starvation as Stalinism caused. It's an open question.
But saying you haven't killed as many people as Hitler isn't a very good defence, is it?

So, once more, with feeling.
Capitalist apolgists often claim that the free market is the way to end poverty. But you have stated plainly, on this forum, that capitalism would not work if noone was threatened with poverty. (OK, you also said 'neither would any other system'. Or words to that effect.)
So. To clear up an apparent contradiction. In your opinion, could capitalism operate even if nobody was threatened with homelessness or hunger?
I seem to remember being told at school that every war has an economic cause. The war for land, resources, slaves or whatever boils down to grabbing as much asvthe enemy's property as one can to convert it into profit for your side.

True, unlike earlier centuries, and the Israelis currently, we now tend to give the enemy their land back and either ask for reperations or, as in Iraq, further fuck the place up to the lasting benefit of no-one. All political systems have been guilty of of similar mistakes throughout history. Probably started when Ug's mob got too big for their cave and chased the neighbours out of theirs and expanded into it!

Later: dragged it further OT there, but think it might be interesting to research who lobbied hardest for wars over the past 300 years, betcha industry would have been high on the list, all that earning potential!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1358 Post by thundril » September 25th, 2015, 1:22 pm

I don't think capitalism is any different from feudalism, slavery, Stalinism, tribal communism, or any other 'system' with respect to war, Dave. After many decades of wrestling with political thoughts on the problem of war, I'm coming back to where I was in my late teens. Buffy Sainte Marie sums it up.

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Dave B
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1359 Post by Dave B » September 25th, 2015, 1:56 pm

thundril wrote:I don't think capitalism is any different from feudalism, slavery, Stalinism, tribal communism, or any other 'system' with respect to war, Dave. After many decades of wrestling with political thoughts on the problem of war, I'm coming back to where I was in my late teens. Buffy Sainte Marie sums it up.
Excepting Stalin, possibly, all the other systems analyse down to economics in tbe end.I was careful to use the word "economics" rather than "capitalism" or "commercialism"!

Anyway, barring the economics of running a health system and the constant war between service and the taking of excess profit in that area, we are still way offsubject.

Willing to participate investigating war and evonomics elsewhere though. Not thst it will do any good like . . . :wink:

(Emboldened added later)
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1360 Post by thundril » September 25th, 2015, 3:00 pm

Dave B wrote:
thundril wrote:I don't think capitalism is any different from feudalism, slavery, Stalinism, tribal communism, or any other 'system' with respect to war, Dave. After many decades of wrestling with political thoughts on the problem of war, I'm coming back to where I was in my late teens. Buffy Sainte Marie sums it up.
Excepting Stalin, possibly, all the other systems analyse down to economics in tbe end.I was careful to use the word "economics" rather than "capitalism" or "commercialism"!

Anyway, barring the economics of running a health system and the constant war between service and the taking of excess profit in that area, we are still way offsubject.

Willing to participate investigating war and evonomics elsewhere though. Not thst it will do any good like . . . :wink:

(Emboldened added later)
Yep. Way off topic, Dave. Will start another thread: the Universal Soldier. (Not that it'll do any harm :wink: )

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Alan H
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Re: The future of the NHS (if any)

#1361 Post by Alan H » September 27th, 2015, 1:22 am

BMA to ballot junior doctors on industrial action
Junior doctors in England are to be balloted on industrial action over government plans to introduce a new contract from August 2016.

Critics say the new contract involves pay cuts of up to 30%, with overtime rates scrapped for work between 7am and 10pm on every day except Sunday.

The British Medical Association said the ballot reflected doctors' anger.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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