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Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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bindeweede
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Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#1 Post by bindeweede » July 6th, 2011, 10:56 pm

If you are interested or care, please take a look.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/murdoch_message ... 781&v=9520

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#2 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 9:42 am

I doubt that Murdoch will ever become a Berlusconi, he is too biased towards media to become directly involved in politics I think, but too much influence in the hands of one man is not healthy. Cameron's reluctance may be his attempt to annoy neither the electorate nor Murdoch. If so Murdoch is already seriously affecting, if indirectly, British politics.

The only solution to this is to break his empire up as much as possible rather than seek to appease him.

Being a cynic I also feel that the stand by the Telegraph et al probably has at least as much to do with getting rid of some opposition than saving the British public from a media world ruled by Murdoch.

Signed.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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jaywhat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#3 Post by jaywhat » July 7th, 2011, 10:49 am

I think there is more than one reason why Murdoch will not become another Berlusconi.

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#4 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 11:23 am

jaywhat wrote:I think there is more than one reason why Murdoch will not become another Berlusconi.
Er, I was thinking in terms of seriously affecting the larger part of his country's media rather than a fair proportion of the near legal upwards members of the female sex!

I am not sure whether that might make him actually doubly dangerous - even more single minded on becoming the global King Media.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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AlexVocat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#5 Post by AlexVocat » July 7th, 2011, 4:39 pm

I understand the cynic point of view of The Telegraph but I think it's too easy to assume that.

It's also easy to assume that Murdoch personally requested the phone hacking himself. I'm not saying anybody is but what I am saying is that we are dealing with a conglomerate of very large companies. It's a bit unrealistic to assume that the CEO of many news companies can end up dictating the opinion of a column in just one of the owned papers. Murdoch runs a business in running newspapers, not producing particular stances. People are quick to cynically assume that he runs certain stances to appeal to the governments that are likely to come into power. But newspapers are consumer products. It would not work commercially for all the papers that he owns to have a universal stance. He's interested in what sells, which is what consumers want, not what he wants. It's the chief editor of the News of the World that needs investigating, not Murdoch. Maybe I'm being too naive. Thoughts on this?
Alex Vocat

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#6 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 5:01 pm

It's also easy to assume that Murdoch personally requested the phone hacking himself.
Actually that is one thing that I feel does not apply. I see these sort of actions as being those of young(ish?) and hungry types, eager to make a place but without the intelligence to realise that, eventually, if you use such material some one if going to ask how you achieved it. Murdoch is old and ugly enough to know that copy built on such material is usually more of a danger than a benefit.

I am, however, wondering the ins and outs of keeping Brooks on. If she was on duty at the time but completely innocent then she is, perhaps, the right person to lumber with sorting it out. But if there is any doubt at all . . .

BREAKING NEWS! Just heard on the radio that the NoW is being scrapped, closed, on Sunday and the last money it will earn will go to "a good cause".

I am not entirely surprised.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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AlexVocat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#7 Post by AlexVocat » July 7th, 2011, 5:19 pm

I went on to say that I didn't think anyone would make the claim you quoted.

Businesses are self-contained. This isn't to say that Murdoch couldn't influence those that he owns but it is short-minded to think that all these businesses could do well enough if they all said and did the same thing. If Murdoch harboured the immorality to endorse such a scandal then there is no reason why it shouldn't have occured in other papers. As far as the facts have so-far emerged, this hasn't happened. Moreover, I just don't think it's a capable feat, it's too Hollywood.

The closing of NoW has been independent of government. Could this be to evade incisive investigation? The main reason for its closure is of course just the fact that it's no longer a viable business. But will it reduce the newsworthy status of any more facts uncovered in an investigation? It needs to be hung, drawn and quartered in public, not put down in a back room.
Alex Vocat

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#8 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 5:24 pm

Sorry, Alex, the news on the radio diverted what is left of my mind.

Someone has just said that the atmosphere at Wapping was poisonous today, everyone saying that there was no way brooks should have been put in the position of investigating a time when she was in charge.

I wonder if this will be the end of it or whether some legal leashes will be put around the necks of the newshounds?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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AlexVocat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#9 Post by AlexVocat » July 7th, 2011, 5:43 pm

Some commentator speaking on the BBC has just said that he welcomes the closure only if it's about a facing up to the scale of the damage that's been caused. He's raised concerns that the paper may have just chucked many, many employees - who probably had nothing to do with the scandal - out onto the dole as a marketing tactic so the paper can be recovered in the long term. I share this worry.

Ed Milliband made the point that he's not interested in closing down papers, he's interested in bringing the people responsible to justice.
Alex Vocat

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animist
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#10 Post by animist » July 7th, 2011, 5:47 pm

as long as I can remember, the NoW (I always thought of it as "Nudes of the World") has been synonymous with gutter journalism, so this has made my day

ludite
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#11 Post by ludite » July 7th, 2011, 5:53 pm

I think the closure is just comercial a commercial discion and the whole left will soon be filled by another tabloid paper.

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AlexVocat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#12 Post by AlexVocat » July 7th, 2011, 5:59 pm

People have made the point that it's inconcievable that News International will continue long-term without a Sunday tabloid.
Alex Vocat

Nick
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#13 Post by Nick » July 7th, 2011, 6:02 pm

AlexVocat wrote:I understand the cynic point of view of The Telegraph but I think it's too easy to assume that.

It's also easy to assume that Murdoch personally requested the phone hacking himself. I'm not saying anybody is but what I am saying is that we are dealing with a conglomerate of very large companies. It's a bit unrealistic to assume that the CEO of many news companies can end up dictating the opinion of a column in just one of the owned papers. Murdoch runs a business in running newspapers, not producing particular stances. People are quick to cynically assume that he runs certain stances to appeal to the governments that are likely to come into power. But newspapers are consumer products. It would not work commercially for all the papers that he owns to have a universal stance. He's interested in what sells, which is what consumers want, not what he wants. It's the chief editor of the News of the World that needs investigating, not Murdoch. Maybe I'm being too naive. Thoughts on this?
I think I would go along with much of what you say. As proprietors go, he doesn't interfere in the editorial of his newpapers.

And I find the attitude of Avaaz pretty obnoxious. It attacks Murdoch personally, which is not really the point here, and seems so smug and self-satisfied, as if they are responsible for having solved the world's problems with a bit of blogging and viral networking.

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Alan H
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#14 Post by Alan H » July 7th, 2011, 6:03 pm

Dave B wrote:BREAKING NEWS! Just heard on the radio that the NoW is being scrapped, closed, on Sunday and the last money it will earn will go to "a good cause".
Yeah. Phone hackers anonymous.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

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Alan H
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#15 Post by Alan H » July 7th, 2011, 6:09 pm

Nick wrote:And I find the attitude of Avaaz pretty obnoxious. It attacks Murdoch personally, which is not really the point here
The petition says:
Dear Mr. Cameron and Mr. Hunt,

The undertakings you are consulting on for the BSkyB takeover by News Corporation are not good enough and the takeover shouldn't go ahead. Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation already owns too much of our media and if this deal goes ahead would aggressively cross-promote its products, damaging rival news groups and restricting what we see and read.

The process for this deal is flawed. It looks at a limited set of issues, ignoring a major concern -- that Murdoch trashes media standards and ignores regulators. Hacking and other scandals show how his media often violates ethics and the law. There are serious gaps in the deal you outlined, including no fixed financial penalties for breaches. News Corporation can't be trusted to stick to it.

I call on you to refuse to grant News Corporation any further control of British media until the deal has been reviewed by the competition commission and a full judge-led public inquiry into the hacking scandal is completed.
Murdoch is the guy in charge, isn't he, and therefore ultimately responsible?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#16 Post by Nick » July 7th, 2011, 6:14 pm

AlexVocat wrote:Some commentator speaking on the BBC has just said that he welcomes the closure only if it's about a facing up to the scale of the damage that's been caused. He's raised concerns that the paper may have just chucked many, many employees - who probably had nothing to do with the scandal - out onto the dole as a marketing tactic so the paper can be recovered in the long term. I share this worry.
I think it's more about protecting the rest of News Corp., not the News of the Screws. Aprt from that,I'd go along with your view. I'm a little surprised he didn't close the paper for a few months and then open new cleaned-up title, with a complete change of editorial staff. But presumably they've done the sums. OTOH, maybe it'll do just that and emerge under a new title.
Ed Milliband made the point that he's not interested in closing down papers, he's interested in bringing the people responsible to justice.
If true, this will enable me to actually agree with something that Ed has said, for the first time I can recall!

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#17 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 6:18 pm

I a betting lots of trousers are going into the laundry tonight . . .
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AlexVocat
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#18 Post by AlexVocat » July 7th, 2011, 6:48 pm

Alan H wrote:Murdoch is the guy in charge, isn't he, and therefore ultimately responsible?
I think we really need to distinguish between 'in charge' and 'fault'. The only way we can attack Murdoch is if we see that he has shown a clear neglect for putting up systems that work to avoid such a scandal. If there was no policy of ethic for example, we could be suspicious.

To say that it's a problem that Murdoch owns much of the media could be pointless. Tesco and Sainbury's are completely separate companies but that doesn't mean price fixing between the two couldn't occur. The boundaries between companies are a grey area.

To avoid going mad, it's best that we ask "who is really responsible: who commissioned this to happen and who knew about it but still let it happen?"
Alex Vocat

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Dave B
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#19 Post by Dave B » July 7th, 2011, 7:07 pm

Was it a case of the actions being "commissioned" or does some fault lie with those seniors who, with their experience and knowledge of "ethical" and "unethical" sources did not question how certain kinds of info were obtained or accepted that they might be from dodgy sources and still used them.

Now, who actually authored or authorised those statements, that have been referred to iin interviews, that the situation at the NoW had been sorted out and cleared up after the first round of exposures? Why was not a deeper cleanout made to ensure squeaky cleanness? The buck only stops wherever that point is.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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animist
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Re: Murdoch and his UK media takeover.

#20 Post by animist » July 7th, 2011, 7:34 pm

Alan H wrote:Murdoch is the guy in charge, isn't he, and therefore ultimately responsible?
yes, and I wonder how many "liberal" papers he owns? Also, it this not about monopoly power as well as hacking? I agree the Avaaz wording could have been better (my wife edited it before signing the petition) but generally I am glad that Avaaz do what they do

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