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Honor killings

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Honor killings

#1 Post by Marian » February 6th, 2010, 9:22 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/fe ... ive-turkey

Iraq, Jordan, Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, UK, USA, Canada and France (among others) either practice 'honor' killings or have been touched by them.
Video is quite long but if you watch the first 3 mins of so, you'll get the picture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq5J1M2d ... re=related

Definition of honor killings: An honor killing or honour killing is generally the murder of a female member of a family by the family, when they (and maybe the wider community) believe her to have brought dishonor upon them. A woman can be targeted commonly for: refusing an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or committing adultery or fornication. These killings result from the perception that defense of family honour justifies killing a woman whose behavior dishonours her family. (I am also adding that homosexual men are also at risk)

Those women who are threatened with being killed are the ones in jail...for their own safety. Something is wrong with this picture,methinks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9KIdKCq6YE and/or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIiaCu2HhrM

The following video has GRAPHIC IMAGES of a stoning caught on cellphone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_ZWTx-QUj4

I know I've put in a fair amount of information but pick something and let's talk about this...
Transformative fire...

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Lifelinking
Posts: 3248
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 11:56 am

Re: Honor killings

#2 Post by Lifelinking » February 6th, 2010, 10:05 pm

Well, I've only got as far as the first piece in the Guardian so far Marian. ImageImageImageImage
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

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Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: Honor killings

#3 Post by Alan C. » February 6th, 2010, 10:14 pm

Marian
I know I've put in a fair amount of information but pick something and let's talk about this...
I didn't post a link to that first article (Turkish girl, 16, buried alive for talking to boys) when I saw it a couple of days ago, cos I thought what's the point? No amount of talk on this or any other forum is going to have any effect on these sick bastards, it makes me sick to my stomach but I really don't know what can be done.
Maybe it'll just take time and in 500 years or so they will be where we are now, one can only hope.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Hundovir
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Joined: June 21st, 2009, 3:23 pm

Re: Honor killings

#4 Post by Hundovir » February 6th, 2010, 10:21 pm

Marian wrote:let's talk about this...
Why? What do you want to say? What is there to talk about? There's talk and there's action. I don't think the former will achieve anything and with regard to the latter - didn't some politician once mention "bombing them back to the Stone Age"? Seems to me they're already back there.
Alan C. wrote:No amount of talk on this or any other forum is going to have any effect on these sick bastards,
I concur.

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Lifelinking
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 11:56 am

Re: Honor killings

#5 Post by Lifelinking » February 6th, 2010, 10:38 pm

Well if there ever was a time to exert political pressure on Turkey to get its act together it would be now, when they are trying so hard to get in to the EU.
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

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getreal
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Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Honor killings

#6 Post by getreal » February 6th, 2010, 11:35 pm

I take it that in Turkey at least, these killings are actually a crime, to which which the authorities turn a blind eye?

(sorry, can't look at the pictures--my imagination is unfortunatly fertile enough without actually witnessing these horrific events)
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Honor killings

#7 Post by Marian » February 7th, 2010, 12:04 pm

Lifelinking wrote:Well, I've only got as far as the first piece in the Guardian so far Marian.
Maybe you should stop there; I don't want you to hurt your head banging it against a brick wall. :wink:

Yes, upsetting and frustrating are useful words to describe our reactions to it. Yet, I can't but see a link between honor killings and its' cousin self-immolation, in terms of how immensely desperate these women must have felt knowing that the larger community supports and encourages what is happening to them. Where does one turn?

If we feel outraged by these events, imagine the terror each of the victims (or near victims) as they await their family's judgement. Should we look at the perpetrators as merely 'victims' of their own customs/communities, which somehow removes responsibility from the immediate family? Should men over 70 be killed off as was suggested by one interviewee in an article called: The Dynamics of Honor Killings in Turkey?
Lifelinking wrote:Well if there ever was a time to exert political pressure on Turkey to get its act together it would be now, when they are trying so hard to get in to the EU.
Absolutely! Apparantly, in their bid to get acceptance, there have been all sorts of changes in the legal realm to crack down on these killings but laws don't necessarily change people's thinking, especially in tribal/rural areas where enforcement is almost nil.
I think the laws are important but only if people buy into their legitimacy. This is where Sharia law plays a part, I suspect, in reinforcing 'traditions' although honor killings were going on long before Islam took over the Middle East.
getreal wrote:I take it that in Turkey at least, these killings are actually a crime, to which which the authorities turn a blind eye?
Turkey, Pakistan and Egypt have laws against honor killings but it's just 'eyewash' as either police/prosecutors ignore it or sentences are very lenient. ie. 6 months in one case or up to 7 years. Either way, the message is clear: there is no outright ban on the practice and the idea that women are subject to community control with the threat of death hanging over them (sorry, bad play on words there) is reinforced.
Does this mean that the death penalty should be instituted against perpetrators of honor killing? Eye for an eye. That kind of thing?

@ Hundovir and Alan C
You bring up an interesting point with regard to attitude. I don't think your feelings of hopelessness could in any way compare to the depths of ultimate despair these women endure living in that kind of environment but I think your comment is probably how lots of people feel. What's the point? We can't do anything about it, so why try?

Talking about things raises awareness and with enough awareness comes mobilization of resources, time, energy, focus etc etc. I am certainly glad that Unifem, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Int'l keep on. Every little bit helps.
Here's a web-site to at least check out regarding things that can be tried: http://www.actnow.com.au/Action/Honour_ ... CTION.aspx
Transformative fire...

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