INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used. For further information, see our Privacy Policy. Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

To be, or not to be

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
Message
Author
Compassionist
Posts: 3487
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#21 Post by Compassionist » September 12th, 2009, 8:21 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

:)

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: To be, or not to be

#22 Post by Marian » September 13th, 2009, 1:44 am

Compassionist wrote: I cried reading your post. I feel for you. I have often been inclined to choose NO as the answer to the first question although I am not sure. Please don't take my response the wrong way. I am not offering paltry pity, just my empathy and the inevitable sympathy that follows empathy. I hope things get easier for you and yours.
Thank you for your empathy. I am sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry. I guess I have lived with so much crap for so long that I just take it in stride (except on my bad days-then I visit this site: http://www.existentialcrisis.com/ ) Ok, the comment in brackets and the website is my poor attempt at humour.Sometimes dark humour is the only thing keeping me going.
I live everyday walking the very thin line between hoping a cure is found for his disease and accepting that he will die before me. Either way, it's tough.
I like that you have a kind heart, compassionist. I am glad you have kept this in spite of your life experiences. You set a good example for me in that regard. My compassion is a bit buried right now--geez, there I go again, making jokes about death. :wink:
Compassionist wrote:As far as I can tell, mutations are triggered by physical variables e.g. radiation and are not at all random. Nothing is random. All are determined. That's as far as the evidence goes. I hate to be a Hard Determinist but I inevitably am.
I guess that means you don't buy Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. :smile:
Transformative fire...

Felicia
Posts: 495
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 9:16 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#23 Post by Felicia » September 13th, 2009, 5:18 pm

Question 1: Would YOU choose to be alive if you knew before you were conceived what your life would be like?

Question 2: If your life could be rewinded and you could go back to a point before your conception (impossible, unless one is omnipotent) would you choose to experience your life exactly as it has been up until THIS MOMENT?

I'd quite like to answer Compassionist's two interesting questions anonymously but it seems a bit wimpish in the light of the honest and integrity that has informed this thread so far.

Question 1: No.
Question 2: No.

I take on board Emma's closer definition of the questions, but I am answering the spirit I suppose of Compassionist's enquiry. No, I don't want to go through it again, under any circumstances whatsoever. And I have suffered nothing compared with others here, have had no awful circumstances. My parents loved me, we were affluent, I've had the experience of being loved by friends and lovers, I've published books to critical acclaim, I've been the life and soul of many a party, I've never been financially insecure or ill or in trouble with the law. Nothing. I have been materially fortunate in every way.
But ever since I can remember I've wanted to die. It's called a false self construction, the bright, glittery star who shines and lives for the appreciation and admiration of others because there's nothing inside. I've now had seven years of 3 times a week analysis and it's beginning, slightly, to lose its grip. And I'm writing about this now, here, because I now understand why it happened like this, why, with all I have been given and blessed with, I have always carried a knife in my bag in case it just gets too much. I'm a missionary here, but it's not a religion. It happened because my mother was depressed when I was a baby and throughout my childhood. It's not her fault, she didn't want to be depressed, she didn't realise that babies need to be looked at with joyous love to internalise a loving and loved self. That's why I work with children and their families, why I do voluntary work with mothers and babies because I know exactly what it means if a baby is not looked after in the right way, and this is nothing to do with physical care. Love itself is not enough: I know my mother loved me, she has said that having me and my brothers gave her a reason for living. Did I internalise death from her? Or was it just the lack of secure warmth? I don't know. But I don't want to go through it all again.

User avatar
getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: To be, or not to be

#24 Post by getreal » September 13th, 2009, 5:26 pm

I'm finding this thread terribly sad.
I'm extremely surprised that so many people would choose not to live their life again. I have always assumed that everyone would want to re live their life if the option was life or no existance at all.

It's certainly not something I've ever discussed with anyone else and it's never some up in conversation before. Maybe if it had I'd be less surprised at the responses here.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Compassionist
Posts: 3487
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#25 Post by Compassionist » September 13th, 2009, 6:36 pm

mmitchc633 wrote:Thank you for your empathy. I am sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry. I guess I have lived with so much crap for so long that I just take it in stride (except on my bad days-then I visit this site: http://www.existentialcrisis.com/ ) Ok, the comment in brackets and the website is my poor attempt at humour.Sometimes dark humour is the only thing keeping me going.

I live everyday walking the very thin line between hoping a cure is found for his disease and accepting that he will die before me. Either way, it's tough.
I like that you have a kind heart, compassionist. I am glad you have kept this in spite of your life experiences. You set a good example for me in that regard. My compassion is a bit buried right now--geez, there I go again, making jokes about death. :wink:
It's not your fault that I cried. I am sad about your suffering and that of your son. It's also not your fault that you and your son have suffered and are suffering. I am grateful for my compassion - I am rather surprised that I still have compassion and have not become an embittered cynical misanthrope. It's the one attribute about myself that I cherish the most. I hope I won't get some terrible brain injury like Phineas Gage which would carve out my precious compassion.
Compassionist wrote:As far as I can tell, mutations are triggered by physical variables e.g. radiation and are not at all random. Nothing is random. All are determined. That's as far as the evidence goes. I hate to be a Hard Determinist but I inevitably am.
mmitchc633 wrote:I guess that means you don't buy Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. :smile:
Actually, I do accept Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle which states that it is impossible to know both the location and the velocity of a sub-atomic particle. Just because WE can't know both the location and the velocity of something it does not mean the particle itself doesn't have a location and velocity. It simply means that we are too ignorant and incompetent to be omniscient and omnipotent. It's not our fault. After all, we ARE prisoners of causality!

Compassionist
Posts: 3487
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#26 Post by Compassionist » September 13th, 2009, 6:42 pm

getreal wrote:I'm finding this thread terribly sad.
I'm extremely surprised that so many people would choose not to live their life again. I have always assumed that everyone would want to re live their life if the option was life or no existance at all.

It's certainly not something I've ever discussed with anyone else and it's never some up in conversation before. Maybe if it had I'd be less surprised at the responses here.
I am sorry to have saddened you by triggering this cascade of revelations. I used to run the Dundee Bipolar Self Help Group and I had asked these questions to the members and many had answered NO. Given how much suffering people with bipolar disorder experience, it is not surprising that most answered NO. I think I will spare you the details of my overdose. I am glad you enjoy being alive and your answers are YES.

Compassionist
Posts: 3487
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#27 Post by Compassionist » September 13th, 2009, 6:47 pm

Felicia wrote:Question 1: Would YOU choose to be alive if you knew before you were conceived what your life would be like?

Question 2: If your life could be rewinded and you could go back to a point before your conception (impossible, unless one is omnipotent) would you choose to experience your life exactly as it has been up until THIS MOMENT?

I'd quite like to answer Compassionist's two interesting questions anonymously but it seems a bit wimpish in the light of the honest and integrity that has informed this thread so far.

Question 1: No.
Question 2: No.

I take on board Emma's closer definition of the questions, but I am answering the spirit I suppose of Compassionist's enquiry. No, I don't want to go through it again, under any circumstances whatsoever. And I have suffered nothing compared with others here, have had no awful circumstances. My parents loved me, we were affluent, I've had the experience of being loved by friends and lovers, I've published books to critical acclaim, I've been the life and soul of many a party, I've never been financially insecure or ill or in trouble with the law. Nothing. I have been materially fortunate in every way.
But ever since I can remember I've wanted to die. It's called a false self construction, the bright, glittery star who shines and lives for the appreciation and admiration of others because there's nothing inside. I've now had seven years of 3 times a week analysis and it's beginning, slightly, to lose its grip. And I'm writing about this now, here, because I now understand why it happened like this, why, with all I have been given and blessed with, I have always carried a knife in my bag in case it just gets too much. I'm a missionary here, but it's not a religion. It happened because my mother was depressed when I was a baby and throughout my childhood. It's not her fault, she didn't want to be depressed, she didn't realise that babies need to be looked at with joyous love to internalise a loving and loved self. That's why I work with children and their families, why I do voluntary work with mothers and babies because I know exactly what it means if a baby is not looked after in the right way, and this is nothing to do with physical care. Love itself is not enough: I know my mother loved me, she has said that having me and my brothers gave her a reason for living. Did I internalise death from her? Or was it just the lack of secure warmth? I don't know. But I don't want to go through it all again.
Thank you Felicia for sharing something so profound and personal. I admire you for the way you converted the muck of your suffering into the lotus of volunteering to help others. I have done the same. Wanting the appreciation and admiration of others is common to all insecure people. I guess it stems from not having had parental approval during childhood. I hope you can see yourself the way I see you. You are luminous and I am grateful to have been in your light. I am crying again. Thank you for being a luminous candle in the dark.

User avatar
getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: To be, or not to be

#28 Post by getreal » September 13th, 2009, 6:49 pm

No need to apologise :)

It makes me even more thankful for my life.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: To be, or not to be

#29 Post by Fia » September 13th, 2009, 9:26 pm

Goodness, this is the thread of tears... I am humbled by much of the sharing here. Thank you, Felicia for your sharing, and I fervently hope you can find a way to find your inner loved self. Compassionist said:
I admire you for the way you converted the muck of your suffering into the lotus of volunteering to help others.
So do I. Beautifully put.

We all know that the private self can be so different from the public persona e.g. many comedians who suffer depression, private pain needs to be articulated and addressed to live well. May we all continue to learn to live well, and support each-other in doing so :)

Compassionist
Posts: 3487
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: To be, or not to be

#30 Post by Compassionist » September 19th, 2009, 3:54 am

Thank you Fia. I think it is also a thread of enlightement as it shows how darkness can give birth to light (metaphorically speaking). I highly recommend Learning from Wonderful Lives: Lessons from the Study of Well-being Brought to Life by the Personal Stories of Some Much Admired Individuals by Nick Baylis.

Nirvanam
Posts: 1023
Joined: April 15th, 2009, 11:29 pm

Re: To be, or not to be

#31 Post by Nirvanam » September 19th, 2009, 3:37 pm

Fia wrote:Goodness, this is the thread of tears... I am humbled by much of the sharing here.
I know!!
It is almost like we can see that there is really not much difference between ourselves...we are all the same in more ways than we think. Of course I must confess that I'd feel shameless if I compared my difficult times with what some of the others have gone through. So that way I'd think I've been a little more lucky than the rest. But the similarities in our feelings, our reactions, what we care for, what we long for, are too much for it to be random coincidence. I guess this could be one more way to classify individuals as belonging to a particular species.

Post Reply