The Glass Ceiling

[Chineapple punk]

Did anyone see the section on The Glass Ceiling, featuring Michelle Mone (creator of Ultimo underwear) discussing the subject in the studio?

My question is WHY DO THEY INVITE STUPID PEOPLE ON TO COMMENT ON REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES?

During all the usual questions on why women are still missing out on top jobs, why we seem to be going backwards instead of forwards, what complex reasons are involved in this, etc, etc, Michelle pipes up "You know I LOVE BEING A WOMAN, I love men holding doors open for me but I hate it when I have to hold doors open for them".

WTF was all that about? Honestly, I would jump at the chance to put my views across on such issue's, but as I am not a famously rich business woman, I don't think I'll be invited on anytime soon.
I'm amazed she managed to rise to such heights considering the fact that her movements would have been severely restricted, due to waiting for men to be present to open doors for her???!!!!

What a choob!

[Ninny]

I sometimes think that, until we persuade women to be feminists, we don't stand a chance with men!

[Chineapple punk]

Yes, I agree.

I hate the way that nowadays "feminism" or "feminist" seem to be often used as pejorative terms. I feel that there are generations of young people being brought up seeing a type of semi-equality, and therefore wondering what women have to complain about.

Maybe the attitudes of society towards gender roles and labeling are just as hard to reverse as religious indoctrination? It seems that women make some progress in certain areas and then society says "No, you have had enough now, we are taking a bit back"

Arguments always seem to focus on women having the big choice to make between having a career and kids, and this is blamed as the main reason for inequality in the workplace. Well maybe if men were entitled to equal paternity leave, this would highlight to society that men also had the choice to take more part in childcare, and therefore there is no assumption made that it is a woman's sole responsibility.

[Beki]

Well maybe if men were entitled to equal paternity leave, this would highlight to society that men also had the choice to take more part in childcare, and therefore there is no assumption made that it is a woman's sole responsibility.

Completely agree that this absolutely must happen - equality will only be lip service until it does.

I do get a bit worked up about this issue sometimes. My own personal experience is that I don't think that I have ever been discriminated against because of my sex. But to be absolutely honest, as someone who does hire employees, you can see why, when it is down to a choice of two equally qualified individuals, one a newly-married female or the other a newly-married male, the existing laws on who can take parental leave means that by employing the female you have a much higher risk of taking someone on who may not be around for three years.

(As an aside, I have known women to deliberately move out of the private sector and into the NHS, worked the minimum two years required and then been on full pay for ages whilst they had two / three kids on the trot - they could only do this because the maternity leave conditions in the public sector were far better). I can see how, as an employer (especially in a small private company) you can't square taking that kind of risk, even if it is 'illegal' to do so. At least if either parent had the choice you could take it in turns to take parental leave.

That said, I don't think that childcare is the be all and end all. I had a laugh when my boss (male) assumed that at some point I would want to take over from him. What he just doesn't get is that I would never in a million years "sell my soul to the company" which is basically what you have to do if you want the very top jobs. The sacrifices that you have to make in terms of limits on personal life and time with family and friends are simply too much for something as egotistical as wanting the 'top job'. No matter the pay - sorry! A huge generalisation, but I really do think that it is a fundamental difference between the way that men and women think.

Probably some alpha-male, pack-leader type thing that comes along with the testosterone.

[Lifelinking]

Probably some alpha-male, pack-leader type thing that comes along with the testosterone.

Ug!

[Chineapple punk]

Beki said:

Completely agree that this absolutely must happen - equality will only be lip service until it does.

I do get a bit worked up about this issue sometimes. My own personal experience is that I don't think that I have ever been discriminated against because of my sex. But to be absolutely honest, as someone who does hire employees, you can see why, when it is down to a choice of two equally qualified individuals, one a newly-married female or the other a newly-married male, the existing laws on who can take parental leave means that by employing the female you have a much higher risk of taking someone on who may not be around for three years.

(As an aside, I have known women to deliberately move out of the private sector and into the NHS, worked the minimum two years required and then been on full pay for ages whilst they had two / three kids on the trot - they could only do this because the maternity leave conditions in the public sector were far better). I can see how, as an employer (especially in a small private company) you can't square taking that kind of risk, even if it is 'illegal' to do so. At least if either parent had the choice you could take it in turns to take parental leave.

That said, I don't think that childcare is the be all and end all. I had a laugh when my boss (male) assumed that at some point I would want to take over from him. What he just doesn't get is that I would never in a million years "sell my soul to the company" which is basically what you have to do if you want the very top jobs. The sacrifices that you have to make in terms of limits on personal life and time with family and friends are simply too much for something as egotistical as wanting the 'top job'. No matter the pay - sorry! A huge generalisation, but I really do think that it is a fundamental difference between the way that men and women think.

Probably some alpha-male, pack-leader type thing that comes along with the testosterone.

I agree that the childcare issue is not the only issue but I think it plays a hell of a big part in it. In regards to some women playing the system in the public sector to their personal advantage, I feel that you will always get certain people who will "kick the a**e out of it" and tar everyone with the same brush. The same thing happens when people "abuse" sick leave, or at the very least, twist or stretch certain rules for their own gain.

I don't think I am the type of person who would be willing to "sell my soul to the company" either, but I also know plenty of men who think the same way.

I think it all comes down to the type of person you are, regardless of gender. I've known many alpha-female, pack-leaders in my time.