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Homeopathy

Any topic related to science can be discussed here.
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Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#721 Postby Fia » January 11th, 2011, 12:58 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

The Nightingale Collaboration, which campaigns for evidence-based medicine, will submit a new complaint to the General Pharmaceutical Council on the basis of last week's Newsnight report.

Its director Alan Henness said: "This is a disgraceful state of affairs.


Good for you, Alan. :clap:

I've just listened to the Radio Scotland report... does Sense about Science know something new? Leonor implied that there was vaccination available against malaria. I don't think that's the case. There are anti-malarial drugs but that's not the same thing /nitpicking

Whilst here I'd like to share that years ago the less well informed me did consult a homeopath for a condition that conventional medicine couldn't successfully treat (endometriosis - a condition I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy). It cost me a bucketload of money I didn't have, was ridiculously complicated, yet I persevered, as women who are desperate to become pregnant do :redface: When I did become pregnant, I thought yes, it works, and spent the next few years extolling the "benefits". It was only when I met Alan and Maria, on an old yahoo group, who patiently explained the lack of scientific vigour or proof, in face of my lack of rationality, and I started to research some more, that I realised what a dupe I'd been.

Since then I've always tried to gently educate others as they so gently educated me. A very belated thank you both :kiss:

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Alan H
Posts: 24033
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#722 Postby Alan H » January 11th, 2011, 1:51 pm

Fia wrote:It was only when I met Alan and Maria, on an old yahoo group, who patiently explained the lack of scientific vigour or proof, in face of my lack of rationality, and I started to research some more, that I realised what a dupe I'd been.

Since then I've always tried to gently educate others as they so gently educated me. A very belated thank you both :kiss:
:redface:

Thanks, Fia!

Thought I should share this with you so you have a good idea what our lords and masters are saying...Yesterday in Parliament:

David Tredinnick (Bosworth, Conservative)

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the increase in the critical case capacity and in the number of extra corporeal membrane oxygenation-ECMO-beds from five to 22, which has made a difference. Will he also pay tribute to others who help in these situations, such as the manufacturers of homeopathic medicines and homeopathic chemists? They provide preparations that may be suitable for people, such as the constituent of my hon. Friend Mark Pawsey, who are unable to take flu vaccines and others who choose not to do so.
Source
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#723 Postby Alan H » January 11th, 2011, 1:54 pm

Sorry, I should also have said...

Yes, there is no malaria vaccination, just anti-malarial drugs. However, I suspect that a member of the public sees these drugs as 'immunisation' because it is something taken to prevent you catching a disease - they don't care how the drug achieves this.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

philbo
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Joined: December 18th, 2009, 3:09 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#724 Postby philbo » January 11th, 2011, 5:06 pm

jdc wrote:
philbo wrote:
jaywhat wrote:Surely a majority of MPs have enough sense and knowledge to sort this out.

Given that we (the electorate, that is) vote out our most scientifically-competent MP while returning Tredinnick time and again, there ain't much chance of getting MPs to do the sensible thing.

Yep.

Worse, once we've elected Tredinnick and Dorries some pillock goes and appoints them to the Health Select Committee.

Depressing...

Tredinnick and Dorries on the Health Select Committee??? What. The. Fuck????

Somebody needs to be stuck on a ducking stool and tested for witchcraft - it's the only thing they understand, you know.

I can see more point in putting Archer or Aitken (or David Chaytor) on the Ethics committee. I think my head might have made a dent in the wall.

PS.. your first paragraph about Tredinnick should presumably say "him", not "her" ;)

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#725 Postby Alan H » January 15th, 2011, 10:36 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#726 Postby Alan H » January 16th, 2011, 1:20 am

The CBC programme on homeopathy: Cure or Con is on CBC's website, but only viewable to those in Canada ( :wave: ), but it's now on youtube as well.

Well worth watching.

There's also a post on the superbly named Oot and Aboot with Some Canadian Skeptic: Bryce Wylde: Cause-and-Effect Might not be for You
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#727 Postby Alan C. » January 16th, 2011, 3:21 pm

The CBC programme on homeopathy: Cure or Con is on CBC's website, but only viewable to those in Canada ( :wave: ), but it's now on youtube as well.

Thanks Alan I tried to watch it yesterday, have you read the comments at CBC :shock: I've never seen so many pro homoeopathy posts and Nancy wasn't even there.

Just watched it, utterly depressing.
The women using it on their kids and foregoing vaccinations should be prosecuted.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#728 Postby Alan H » January 16th, 2011, 4:43 pm

Yes, Nancy must be ill...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Lifelinking
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 11:56 am

Re: Homeopathy

#729 Postby Lifelinking » January 16th, 2011, 9:30 pm

And taking her own medicine ..
"Who thinks the law has anything to do with justice? It's what we have because we can't have justice."
William McIlvanney

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#730 Postby Dave B » January 16th, 2011, 9:36 pm

No hope for her then...
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan C.
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Re: Homeopathy

#731 Postby Alan C. » January 16th, 2011, 10:21 pm

Alan H wrote:Yes, Nancy must be ill...

:pointlaugh: :hilarity:
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Nick
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Re: Homeopathy

#732 Postby Nick » January 16th, 2011, 10:27 pm

Does the merest hint of a dilution of a disease knock her for six, do you think? :shrug:

Maria Mac
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Re: Homeopathy

#733 Postby Maria Mac » January 18th, 2011, 7:11 pm

Just parking this one here. When I wake up I will check this thread and if this post isn't here, I will know this website was only a crazy dream:

http://www.homeopathyandmore.com/forum/ ... .php?t=228

This is Nitroglycerine; the heavy explosive stuff bombs are made of. In homoeopathy we use Glonoinum for sudden, heavy symptoms together with the feeling as if you, or a part of you, will explode.

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#734 Postby Dave B » January 18th, 2011, 7:33 pm

Ooooer!

The most common feature in this remedy is the surging of blood to the head and to the heart. A patient often describes the state as a feeling as if all the blood in the body must be rushing around the heart, with a sense of heat or a boiling sensation in the region of the heart, or in the left side of the chest.


Nitroglycerine is, I understand, the same as glyceril trinitrate, the "GTN" which (greatly diluted in alcohol) I carry in a little spray bottle wherever I go. Yes, it will cause all of the effects above since it dilates the blood vessels. Though I think it would take more than the prescribed 400 micrograms to cause any overt sensations other than a head ache (the extra volume of blood increases cranial pressure.) It's also one of the reasons that users of GTN should not also use Viagra - another nitrate - there can be too much of a good thing!

It may be that a one time user would feel some effects, the body does come to tolerate the stuff and increasing doses are needed to get any beneficial effect if it is taken too regularly.

I did pour some from an out-of-date bottle into a piece of plastic tubing, sealed both ends and hit it with a hammer. No discernible explosion!

I got my maths wrong before, 200 doses at 400micrograms per is 0.08g. In 112g that's about 1:1400 - approaching a "weak" homeopathic effect!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan C.
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#735 Postby Alan C. » January 18th, 2011, 7:45 pm

I started to read the link Maria but had to give it up, they obviously don't believe in diluting their paragraphs down into readable chunks, ignoramuses!
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#736 Postby thundril » January 18th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Dave B wrote:
Nitroglycerine is, I understand, the same as glyceril trinitrate, the "GTN" which (greatly diluted in alcohol) I carry in a little spray bottle wherever I go.

I did pour some from an out-of-date bottle into a piece of plastic tubing, sealed both ends and hit it with a hammer. No discernible explosion!

I got my maths wrong before, 200 doses at 400micrograms per is 0.08g. In 112g that's about 1:1400 - approaching a "weak" homeopathic effect!

Brave Dave! Just as well you didn't get your maths wrong before you hit it with a hammer!

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#737 Postby Dave B » January 18th, 2011, 8:02 pm

I was thinking that this could be dangerous for silly people, who believed in hp, with heart problems -so I looked around and found a site about "Glonoinum"

For palliative (non-homeopathic) purposes, in angina pectoris, asthma, heart-failure, etc, physiological doses-i.e, 1-100 of drop-must be given. Here it is the great emergency remedy. The conditions calling for it are small, wiry pulse, pallor, arterial spasm, anæmia of brain, collapse, feeble heart, syncope, dicrotic pulse, vertigo,-the opposite of those indicating a homeopathic dosage. Often thus used to lower the arterial tension in chronic interstitial nephritis.
This seems to say that they recognise that the homeopathic does is useless for any real condition requiring GTN. I wonder if this warning is on the product?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#738 Postby Alan H » January 19th, 2011, 1:14 am

Alan C. wrote:I started to read the link Maria but had to give it up, they obviously don't believe in diluting their paragraphs down into readable chunks, ignoramuses!
Quite. Even scanning it, I could feel the will to live draini......
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

jdc
Posts: 516
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 9:03 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#739 Postby jdc » January 19th, 2011, 2:42 pm

Alan H wrote:
Alan C. wrote:I started to read the link Maria but had to give it up, they obviously don't believe in diluting their paragraphs down into readable chunks, ignoramuses!
Quite. Even scanning it, I could feel the will to live draini......

I tried reading it, really I did. But a little voice in my head kept saying "life's too short, life's too short..."
My Blog; Twitter.
Email: 325jdc325 (at) googlemail.com

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sandymere
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Joined: January 4th, 2011, 3:06 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#740 Postby sandymere » January 19th, 2011, 3:56 pm

Lordy!

http://www.homeopathyandmore.com/forum/ ... .php?t=228

"Symptoms aggravate in the sun, by warmth, by movements and by alcohol. Open air and cold ameliorate, as well as vomiting." (Anja Heij)

Vomiting! at last the answer!

Small scenario using thier description of symptoms. Ambulance arrives patient states "there is most intense pain, sometimes as if the head would burst, sometimes great soreness in the head, or a sense of soreness felt in the skull." don't worry Sir/Madame vomiting can cure a subarachnoid haemorrhage, just stick your finger down your throat!
Another Lordy.

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Paolo
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Re: Homeopathy

#741 Postby Paolo » January 20th, 2011, 8:11 pm

I used to be pretty ambivalent about homeopathy, but the rampant bullshit that homeopaths insist on pushing on people has left me decidedly opinionated.

At present I am sorely tempted to write a spoof homeopathic paper and see if it gets accepted for publication by one of the Alt Med journals. In fact, I have already generated a randomised dataset and data-mined it using some of the statistical methods used in this awful paper (pdf), which I bitched about a while ago on my blog. It turns out that I got the same sort of results from my dataset of random numbers as this study reported - it goes to show how sensitive statistics are to small sample sizes of random numbers - you have to love Chi Squared tests for their ability to find significant results when they've not been used properly...


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