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Homeopathy

Any topic related to science can be discussed here.
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Alan C.
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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#781 Post by Alan C. » February 9th, 2011, 7:34 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

animist
given your involvement in opposing homoeopathy, is whether there have been TH members (or other humanists) who do believe in it
I believe we had one poster of Indian persuasion who was apologetic towards it (I don't mean Nancy) But he hasn't been around for a while now.
To believe in homoeopathy, you not only have to believe that water has a memory but for that memory to be invoked the preparation has to be shaken X amount of times then banged against a leather bound book.
If you can believe that then you deserve to be parted from your hard earned.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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getreal
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Re: Homeopathy

#782 Post by getreal » February 9th, 2011, 9:30 pm

There was aprogramme on BBC (Scotland, I think) a while ago, where the presenter went into some sort of repository for homeopathic preperations (where samples of stuff to be diluted) to speak to the staff there and amoungst other things, there was a sample of the fucking Berlin wall!! WTF is that supposed to cure! The doctor (for it was an actual medically trained British doctor) had the good grace to look embarraced and to admit that diluting a bit of the Berlin wall was a mite fanciful.

I'm pretty sure that most people who believe this stuff works are not aware that the production of homeopathic preparations is dominated by a multi-national mulit-million euro company. I don't understand big finance, but the information can be found here. If you are at all interested, that is.

Clip of the 2 guys in Antartica was brilliant. The scenery was nice too.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Nick
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Re: Homeopathy

#783 Post by Nick » February 9th, 2011, 10:10 pm

Maybe the Berlin Wall is homeopathically useful when you are shitting bricks......


But I don't think major multinational are to blame for homeopathy. There is precious little value in thin air, and because there is no research, there are almost no barriers to entry. No, your anger, though justified, is a little misplaced.

However, my equilibrium (or even my chakras) is/are being disturbed by this thread.

I broached homeopathy with my parents a few months ago. (I showed them a James Randi clip.) Their principal defence was that their (NHS) doctor was a "qualified" [my quotation marks] homeopath. Prompted by this thread, I have just looked up their GP practice (which was mine too, some years ago).

I am appalled to find that the senior partner lists her medical interests as:
paediatrics, homeopathy [my bold], gynaecology and asthma care.
SHe lists her impressive-looking qualifications as:
MA, MBBS, DCH, DRCOG, MRCGP, LFHom (Med) [my bold again]
Some of those letters represent blood, sweat and tears. But not all of them. A quick google of medical alphabet soup (healthshield co.uk) yielded this:
F.B.I.H. Fellow of the British Institute of Homoeopaths.
F.F.Hom. Fellow of the Faculty of Homoeopaths.
F.S.Hom. Fellow of the Royal Society of Homoeopaths.
L.C.P.H. College of Practical Homoeopathy.
L.C.C.H. (Homoeopath) Licentiate of the Contemporary College of Homoeopathy
L.F.Hom. Faculty of Homoeopaths.
M.A.R.H. Member of the Alliance of Registered Homoeopaths.
M.B.I.H. Member of the British Institute of Homoeopathy.
M.C.P.H. Member of the College of Practical Homoeopathy.
M.F.Hom. Member of the Faculty of Homoeopaths.
M.H.M.A. Member of the Homoeopathic Medical Association.
R.S.Hom. Registered with the Royal Society of Homoeopaths.
U.K.H.M.A. United Kingdom Homoeopathic Medical Association.
WTF!!! It's worse than world boxing titles!!

I'd be very interested to hear what other posters (Alan H in particular) think I should do.....

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#784 Post by Alan H » February 9th, 2011, 10:53 pm

getreal wrote:There was aprogramme on BBC (Scotland, I think) a while ago, where the presenter went into some sort of repository for homeopathic preperations (where samples of stuff to be diluted) to speak to the staff there and amoungst other things, there was a sample of the fucking Berlin wall!! WTF is that supposed to cure! The doctor (for it was an actual medically trained British doctor) had the good grace to look embarraced and to admit that diluting a bit of the Berlin wall was a mite fanciful.
Look back a few pages on this same homeopathy thread...http://www.thinkhumanism.com/phpBB3/vie ... 145#p39145
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

jdc
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Re: Homeopathy

#785 Post by jdc » February 11th, 2011, 5:19 pm

getreal wrote:There was aprogramme on BBC (Scotland, I think) a while ago, where the presenter went into some sort of repository for homeopathic preperations (where samples of stuff to be diluted) to speak to the staff there and amoungst other things, there was a sample of the fucking Berlin wall!! WTF is that supposed to cure! The doctor (for it was an actual medically trained British doctor) had the good grace to look embarraced and to admit that diluting a bit of the Berlin wall was a mite fanciful.

I'm pretty sure that most people who believe this stuff works are not aware that the production of homeopathic preparations is dominated by a multi-national mulit-million euro company. I don't understand big finance, but the information can be found here. If you are at all interested, that is.

Clip of the 2 guys in Antartica was brilliant. The scenery was nice too.
Kash Farooq has blogged about Berlin Wall and Shipwreck 'remedies'. I mentioned them in a blogpost about the lunacy of paper remedies.
I remembered the idea of the paper remedy, so I wrote down my constitutional remedy and the potency one higher than my regular potency, placed in under a plastic cup and left it for ten minutes. I then drank the water and within ½ hour my symptoms subsided much to my surprise.
My Blog; Twitter.
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Alan C.
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Re: Homeopathy

#786 Post by Alan C. » February 11th, 2011, 6:02 pm

Thanks for the links jdc, how can these folk not see how bloody ridiculous they make themselves?
I was going to say "you couldn't make it up" But of course that's exactly what they do.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

jdc
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Re: Homeopathy

#787 Post by jdc » February 11th, 2011, 6:30 pm

Alan C. wrote:Thanks for the links jdc, how can these folk not see how bloody ridiculous they make themselves?
I was going to say "you couldn't make it up" But of course that's exactly what they do.
Dunno. Too far gone down the road of self-justification? (Quite apart from money invested in 'training' as a homeopath, there's maybe some emotional investment in alt med too.)
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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#788 Post by Alan H » February 11th, 2011, 6:37 pm

I may have posted this before, but worth reading:

Escaping the Cult of Homeopathy
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Vicky
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Re: Homeopathy

#789 Post by Vicky » February 12th, 2011, 10:07 am

Didn't pick up on this until this morning:-


http://www.isleofman.com/News/article.a ... icle=33311


Any of you come across him before?

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#790 Post by Alan H » February 12th, 2011, 12:21 pm

Vicky wrote:Didn't pick up on this until this morning:-


http://www.isleofman.com/News/article.a ... icle=33311


Any of you come across him before?
Not sure, but I added a comment:
This is nonsense; dangerous nonsense.

There is no evidence whatsoever that homeopathy can cure/treat/prevent ANY illness or disease. Homeopathy is based on pre-scientific notions that do not stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever, and anyone who doubts germ theory is dangerously wrong.

If you want medical advice or want to discuss vaccinations, please see your properly qualified, registered and regulated doctor, not a quack.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#791 Post by Dave B » February 12th, 2011, 1:24 pm

My comment was:

Any chance of a speaker on the efficacy of eye of newt and toe of dog? I claim that such remedies have more effect than the homeopathic ones.

Like none. Except eye of newt and toe of dog do at least contain substances of nutritional value.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#792 Post by Alan H » February 16th, 2011, 6:06 pm

My response to the MHRA consultation on homeopathy: Zeno's Blog » Active ingredients: still none (hopefully)
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Homeopathy

#793 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » February 18th, 2011, 6:27 pm

How infuriating! The Government response to the petition to "Implement the recommendations of the House Commons Science and Technology committee evidence check on Homeopathy" completely misses the point:
The new Government considered the findings and recommendations of the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee and has published a full response.

The Department of Health will not be withdrawing funding for homeopathy on the NHS, nor will the licensing of homeopathic products be stopped. Decisions on the provision and funding of any treatment will remain the responsibility of the NHS locally.

A patient who wants homeopathic treatment on the NHS should speak to his or her GP. If the GP is satisfied this would be the most appropriate and effective treatment then, subject to any local commissioning policies, he or she can refer them to a practitioner or one of the NHS homeopathic hospitals.

In deciding whether homeopathy is appropriate for a patient, the treating clinician would be expected to take into account safety, clinical and cost-effectiveness as well as the availability of suitably qualified and regulated practitioners. The Department of Health would not intervene in such decisions.

The Department’s response to the Science and Technology Committee report explains the reasons behind its decisions in more detail. The response can be found on clicking on the following link:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsand ... DH_4006368
Except that's not the right link; it takes you to the Government response to the House of Lords Select Committee on Science & Technology report: Resistance to antibiotics and other antimicrobial agents. The link they should have given is to this pdf file. It's worth reading if you can control your temper.

Emma

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Alan C.
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Re: Homeopathy

#794 Post by Alan C. » February 18th, 2011, 7:24 pm

Emma
It's worth reading if you can control your temper.
I can't and my blood pressure is already sky high over the Gove piece in the Catholic Herald.
So I'll give it a miss.

I can't for the life of me understand how these dumb arseholes get elected, when a man like Evan Harris doesn't, I sometimes think we're heading back to the dark ages.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#795 Post by Alan H » March 4th, 2011, 4:10 pm

This is a classic!
Carbo veg. - No. 1 Remedy for resuscitation. "The homeopathic corpse reviver". This remedy has saved many lives. Symptoms at their most extreme are complete state of collapse due to oxygen starvation. Body (even breath) is cold. May appear limp, pale or blue. Less severe cases have extreme sluggishness.
It's on its way along with other claims for homeopathy to the ASA: Helios Homeopathy - reanimating the dead
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#796 Post by Dave B » March 4th, 2011, 4:54 pm

If I had have seen that in a slightly different context I would have taken it for a spoof!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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getreal
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Re: Homeopathy

#797 Post by getreal » March 4th, 2011, 5:03 pm

Though I try to keep a sense of humour about this shite, I'm finding that I am becoming increasingly depressed about people's gullability, the greed of homeopaths (there's a whole lotta profit in selling sugar pills and water as cures) and the seeming inability of the people in power to see what is happening (more likely their reluctance to upset the homeopath-loving general public and the medical practicioners who see it as a way of offloading difficult to treat patients. I'm still fairly certain that bona fide medics are well aware that putting wolf spittle in a test tube, shaking it and diluting it to buggery does absolutly hee haw for any medical condition).

Oh! and don't forget that bloody prince charles, whose support lends the whole shebang some degree of legitamacy.

Arse.

:headbang:
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#798 Post by Dave B » March 4th, 2011, 5:13 pm

Oh! and don't forget that bloody prince charles, whose support lends the whole shebang some degree of legitamacy.
Only to those who think Charlie boy is a rational person worth listening to. Unfortunately that could be a lot of gullible would-bes and royalty-suckers.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#799 Post by Alan H » March 4th, 2011, 9:56 pm

Nick wrote:But I don't think major multinational are to blame for homeopathy. There is precious little value in thin air, and because there is no research, there are almost no barriers to entry. No, your anger, though justified, is a little misplaced.
I can't remember the figures off-hand, but homeopathy is a multi-billion pound industry, with multi-national companies like Boiron making millions, yet hardly a drop in proper research.
I broached homeopathy with my parents a few months ago. (I showed them a James Randi clip.) Their principal defence was that their (NHS) doctor was a "qualified" [my quotation marks] homeopath. Prompted by this thread, I have just looked up their GP practice (which was mine too, some years ago).

I am appalled to find that the senior partner lists her medical interests as:
paediatrics, homeopathy [my bold], gynaecology and asthma care.
SHe lists her impressive-looking qualifications as:
MA, MBBS, DCH, DRCOG, MRCGP, LFHom (Med) [my bold again]
Some of those letters represent blood, sweat and tears. But not all of them. A quick google of medical alphabet soup (healthshield co.uk) yielded this:
F.B.I.H. Fellow of the British Institute of Homoeopaths.
F.F.Hom. Fellow of the Faculty of Homoeopaths.
F.S.Hom. Fellow of the Royal Society of Homoeopaths.
L.C.P.H. College of Practical Homoeopathy.
L.C.C.H. (Homoeopath) Licentiate of the Contemporary College of Homoeopathy
L.F.Hom. Faculty of Homoeopaths.
M.A.R.H. Member of the Alliance of Registered Homoeopaths.
M.B.I.H. Member of the British Institute of Homoeopathy.
M.C.P.H. Member of the College of Practical Homoeopathy.
M.F.Hom. Member of the Faculty of Homoeopaths.
M.H.M.A. Member of the Homoeopathic Medical Association.
R.S.Hom. Registered with the Royal Society of Homoeopaths.
U.K.H.M.A. United Kingdom Homoeopathic Medical Association.
WTF!!! It's worse than world boxing titles!!

I'd be very interested to hear what other posters (Alan H in particular) think I should do.....
I have a list of nine different trade organisations for homeopathy in the UK, presumably all offering these 'qualifications'. I have no idea why some proper doctors, dentists, vets, etc believe in this nonsense, and about all you can do is change your GP or whatever and let them know why. Since many of them are within the NHS, they don't advertise, so it's difficult to make any complaint about them. If they are in private practice (which applies to most dentists and vets), then they are open to being complained about if their ads are misleading.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
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Re: Homeopathy

#800 Post by Alan C. » March 16th, 2011, 2:30 pm

Is there no depth to which these bastards wont sink?
“(R)adioactive material carried by wind and air currents may spread contaminated material to neighboring islands and countries. For all concerned, there are protective steps that can be taken with homeopathy. Key remedies that have been used either in research or historically to prevent or treat radiation poisoning include the following: Cadmium iodide; Cadmium-sulph; Phosphorus; Strontium-carbonicum; and X-ray. If at risk of radiation exposure, any one of the above remedies may be taken as an emergency response, three times a day in a 30C potency. Do not exceed 6 doses without guidance from your homeopath.”
Link to full article.
Japanese Radiation Victims Offered Worthless Treatment
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#801 Post by Dave B » March 16th, 2011, 2:53 pm

I want to know how they get a "30C potency" of x-rays! What does one cc of x-ray look like I wonder? Or do they mix it with the rest of the electromagnetic spectrum to get the dilution?

Hey, perhaps they take an x-ray image, pulverise the film to nano dust then put it into chalk pills in the correct potency!

These people are dangerous!

edit: have now read the full article and see I missed the method of x-raying the water - too obvious!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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