Latest post of the previous page:
choice doesn't entail free will; just agencythundril wrote:In what sense have you 'obviously chosen to accept' a set of opinions? Is this evidence of 'free will'?Radius wrote: Yes, contingent on philosophical naturalism, which is a set of opinions I have obviously chosen to accept.
sure, I guessthundril wrote:Fair point; but in that context, ( if the choice does not imply free will) I can't understand why it is 'obvious' that you have chosen a particular set of opinions. Would it not seem more likely that you have merely ended up holding these opinions?
well, that's quite strange, ie that you somehow landed yourself with certain opinions! I think you are simply "choosing" to deny free will in any way you can, and you have not anyway defined what you mean by "agency". The problem is that many choices are actually not free in the substantive meaning of "free", eg I do not "freely" give my money to a mugger, even though I choose to do so, because my choices/options are very constrained; and so for you to insist that NO decision can ever be free seems to miss the important differences between degrees of freedomRadius wrote:sure, I guessthundril wrote:Fair point; but in that context, ( if the choice does not imply free will) I can't understand why it is 'obvious' that you have chosen a particular set of opinions. Would it not seem more likely that you have merely ended up holding these opinions?
But isn't it quite normal for people to hold opinions without choosing? eg. adopting uncritically the prejudices/beliefs/moral values of one's culture?animist wrote:]
well, that's quite strange, ie that you somehow landed yourself with certain opinions!
I don't know if it's 'normal' but it's certainly typical.thundril wrote: But isn't it quite normal for people to hold opinions without choosing? eg. adopting uncritically the prejudices/beliefs/moral values of one's culture?
Yes, adopting the prejudices, beliefs, etc without question is exactly what The Man wants. Defining The Man as those in power be it religious or gov't etc. It isn't without irony that believers are called sheep. Baaa.Yes you're right, Marian. I often use 'normal' when I mean typical.Marian wrote:I don't know if it's 'normal' but it's certainly typical.thundril wrote: But isn't it quite normal for people to hold opinions without choosing? eg. adopting uncritically the prejudices/beliefs/moral values of one's culture?
yes that is true, amending "normal" to mean "typical" or "commonplace" as you and Marian have sorted out. You cannot escape your own background of genes/environment/experience/conditioning and so on, and to that extent you are never completely free; I am not actually sure what being completely free could actually mean, because it would imply having no personality at all. But not being totally free does not prevent you from reflecting on your own values, how you apply them to cases, why you think the way you do, and so on. This after all what we are trying to do a lot of the time in this forum and by exposing ourselves to new opinions and information. I somehow doubt, going back to Radius and my reaction to him, that he as an individual is passively accepting conventional values: clearly he thinks for himself and believes what he likes, so even if many people do uncritically believe what they are told, he is not one of them!thundril wrote:But isn't it quite normal for people to hold opinions without choosing? eg. adopting uncritically the prejudices/beliefs/moral values of one's culture?animist wrote:]
well, that's quite strange, ie that you somehow landed yourself with certain opinions!
Think I agree with you there, Animist.animist wrote: I somehow doubt, going back to Radius and my reaction to him, that he as an individual is passively accepting conventional values: clearly he thinks for himself and believes what he likes, so even if many people do uncritically believe what they are told, he is not one of them!
I haven't read enough of Radius's posts. In fact, I think I've read two. Just too overwhelming to try and catch up on the forum is all. What struck me about your statement was that you said he clearly thinks for himself. I would say that even followers do think for themselves but it depends on the subject at hand. I see that people can think critically about certain aspects of their lives but shut down when it comes to others. Now, not knowing enough about Radius means that I am not talking about him specifically here. Rather I'm generalizing.animist wrote:...he as an individual is passively accepting conventional values: clearly he thinks for himself and believes what he likes, so even if many people do uncritically believe what they are told, he is not one of them!
thundril wrote: Think I agree with you there, Animist.
Gosh, I'm being agreeable today.
Stop that thundril. I'm beginning to wonder if you added something to your cup o tea. Unfortunately, you can't access these unless you are a paid subscriber, which I am not. Can you link them elsewhere or maybe write your commentary for them? I'm interested to see.of the three I posted, the one by Prinz seems to be still available if you click on it, but not the two by Marks - these were quite short and I am not sure I've got them. But the longer three I mentioned (Wong, Garner and Joyce) I have on a Word file - actually I am not sure how to post Word files into TH, anyone know? They're a bit long to print out entire. Otherwise, I can email them to you if you like?Marian wrote:Hey animist, I'm reviving this thread as you posted three articles that I would like to have a look at.
Just below the Post a reply section (where I'm writing this), there is an Upload attachment section. Click on Choose File, select the file you want to attach, then click on Add the file. Once it's completed that, Sumbit your post in the usual way and the attachment will be shown at the bottom of the post. If you want to add another, repeat the process. If you want to place the attachment in teh middle of the text, select the attachment in the Attachments: immediately below this and click on Place inline. Once there, you can move the [attachment ] code wherever you want in your post.animist wrote:I am not sure how to post Word files into TH, anyone know?
Ah! That should work now - please try again.animist wrote:Alan - thanks, but in fact the files are txt (text only) and I am getting the message that extension txt is not allowed, so can I still attach them?
