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Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

Enter here to explore ethical issues and discuss the meaning and source of morality.
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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
Joined: October 20th, 2014, 11:52 pm

Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#1 Postby Gnostic Bishop » July 25th, 2019, 8:19 pm

Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Taxation determines what poverty levels will exist within it’s demographic form. It controls the graph shown below. Governments control taxation and thus control poverty levels directly.
Imagine if you will, the real truth of that taxation, if used correctly, to move the wealth shown in this graph wherever it wants to, with minimal effect on the whole. The fact is, experts say that such a reality would be a win win for everyone.
https://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-am ... ing-fact-2
Not how little of a change would be needed to reach the ideal.
Wise and moral people throughout history, as well as most religious movements, put poverty as the number one enemy to man’s first priority, which is security.
For perhaps the first time in history, we have the wealth where we could end poverty quite easily, --- just with our collective loose change.
It would seem to me that governments are not acting ethically and should be chastised.
I guess that George Carlin, a wise person, was correct in what he said of what Americans cannot feel in their anal orifices. I apply the same condition to the vast majority of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY
If true that we are being willfully ignorant, and do not even care about each other to insure we live in a moral environment, then our owners have succeeded in cowering man’s moral nature to a state of subservience. We have given up our freedom. If we ever had any.
We have all accepted to be slaves. Shame on us all.
We do not live in a Democracy. We live in a Hypocrisy.
We can easily rid ourselves of poverty.
Should we?
Morality says yes.
Will we do the right thing?
Not till hell freezes over.
Regards
DL

Compassionist
Posts: 3427
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#2 Postby Compassionist » July 25th, 2019, 9:12 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Taxation determines what poverty levels will exist within it’s demographic form. It controls the graph shown below. Governments control taxation and thus control poverty levels directly.
Imagine if you will, the real truth of that taxation, if used correctly, to move the wealth shown in this graph wherever it wants to, with minimal effect on the whole. The fact is, experts say that such a reality would be a win win for everyone.
https://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-am ... ing-fact-2
Not how little of a change would be needed to reach the ideal.
Wise and moral people throughout history, as well as most religious movements, put poverty as the number one enemy to man’s first priority, which is security.
For perhaps the first time in history, we have the wealth where we could end poverty quite easily, --- just with our collective loose change.
It would seem to me that governments are not acting ethically and should be chastised.
I guess that George Carlin, a wise person, was correct in what he said of what Americans cannot feel in their anal orifices. I apply the same condition to the vast majority of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY
If true that we are being willfully ignorant, and do not even care about each other to insure we live in a moral environment, then our owners have succeeded in cowering man’s moral nature to a state of subservience. We have given up our freedom. If we ever had any.
We have all accepted to be slaves. Shame on us all.
We do not live in a Democracy. We live in a Hypocrisy.
We can easily rid ourselves of poverty.
Should we?
Morality says yes.
Will we do the right thing?
Not till hell freezes over.
Regards
DL

World wealth distribution is even worse than the inequality of the wealth distribution in the USA. Capitalism is not about working hard, it's about owning the means of wealth generation e.g. factories and residential and commercial properties. The rich don't work for money. They make money work for them. Do you really think the rich do back-breaking labour every day? They don't. They live cushy lives. All factories and properties should be state owned. I like the way the government of Norway owns 67% of the oil of Norway. It would be even better if the government of Norway owned 100% of the oil of Norway. In fact, there should be a democratic world government which should own 100% of all assets. Everyone should have equal standards of living. It is totally unjust that the richest 1% of humans live in the lap of luxury while the poorest 90% struggle daily.

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
Joined: October 20th, 2014, 11:52 pm

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#3 Postby Gnostic Bishop » July 25th, 2019, 9:18 pm

I do not believe in equal outcome while I champion equal opportunity.

We are a hierarchical species and if we did not seek to be fittest, we would likely go extinct.

At this point in our collective history, if we had equal outcomes as you want, then the standards of excellence that only the rich can afford would have to drop quite a bit.

Regards
DL

Compassionist
Posts: 3427
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#4 Postby Compassionist » July 26th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I do not believe in equal outcome while I champion equal opportunity.

We are a hierarchical species and if we did not seek to be fittest, we would likely go extinct.

At this point in our collective history, if we had equal outcomes as you want, then the standards of excellence that only the rich can afford would have to drop quite a bit.

Regards
DL

I know that inequality is natural. Mutation and natural selection are the means by which evolution works. Life is not about the survival of the fittest, it is about the survival of the fit enough. One does not need to be the fittest member of her or his species in order to survive and reproduce, one needs to be just fit enough. The luxurious lifestyle of the hyper rich (the top 1%) is harmful for our species and for other species. They damage the environment by flying in planes and driving cars such as petrol guzzling hyper cars. They also damage the environment by burning fossil fuels and dumping harmful chemicals into the environment. Damaging the environment is harmful for all species. What benefits the human species is living by my motto: "Live and help live, live and love. Help all, harm none." Everyone should receive according to needs (not wants) and contribute according to ability. Everyone should have equal standards of living because that is egalitarian. It is neither fair, nor nice that some live in palaces while many struggle in slums. We should be nurturing virtues in everyone. We should be making life fair for all because reality doesn't care about anyone - it is up to us to create a nice world. We should genetically engineer all organisms to be able to photosynthesize - then we would all be autotrophs and there will be no more hunting and killing and eating.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#5 Postby Gnostic Bishop » July 26th, 2019, 7:17 pm

That is quite the wish list. Good luck with it.

You seem to blame the rich for much of our ecological woes, and while they own their share, it is the vast majority and our eating habits that are killing the environment tihat sustains us and all other life.

If you can, watch the documentary made for the U.N. called Cowspiracy. It is an eye opener when you look at the stats on cows and the fact that even environmentalists fear to talk of that in vase they offend their donors.

If our best people against climate change will not tell us the truth, ------

Regards
DL

Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#6 Postby Compassionist » July 26th, 2019, 10:24 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:That is quite the wish list. Good luck with it.

You seem to blame the rich for much of our ecological woes, and while they own their share, it is the vast majority and our eating habits that are killing the environment tihat sustains us and all other life.

If you can, watch the documentary made for the U.N. called Cowspiracy. It is an eye opener when you look at the stats on cows and the fact that even environmentalists fear to talk of that in vase they offend their donors.

If our best people against climate change will not tell us the truth, ------

Regards
DL

Everyone has an ecological footprint but the rich have huge ecological footprints. Also, you need to add the environmental impact of oil rigs, fracking stations, coal mines, etc. I am a pacifist vegan. I already watched Cowspiracy. Thank you. Are you a vegan?

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
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Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#7 Postby Gnostic Bishop » July 26th, 2019, 11:55 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:That is quite the wish list. Good luck with it.

You seem to blame the rich for much of our ecological woes, and while they own their share, it is the vast majority and our eating habits that are killing the environment tihat sustains us and all other life.

If you can, watch the documentary made for the U.N. called Cowspiracy. It is an eye opener when you look at the stats on cows and the fact that even environmentalists fear to talk of that in vase they offend their donors.

If our best people against climate change will not tell us the truth, ------

Regards
DL

Everyone has an ecological footprint but the rich have huge ecological footprints. Also, you need to add the environmental impact of oil rigs, fracking stations, coal mines, etc. I am a pacifist vegan. I already watched Cowspiracy. Thank you. Are you a vegan?


Yes, I and half my family are Vegan.

As to the ecological damage from industry, we the consumers keep those rigs pumping as we are mostly addicted to our life styles and can only reduce our footprints up to a certain point. There are only a few rich with large footprints as compared to the billons of rank and file and to blame the rich when they are such a minimum of the population is unjust.

My morals will not allow me to be a pacifist as one or the tenets I live by is, --- for evil to grow, all good people/pacifists need do is nothing.

Jesus lived by his, turn the other cheek, which is a Jewish way to insult the hitter, and I follow that reasoning otherwise I would be rewarding evil.

Regards
DL

Compassionist
Posts: 3427
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#8 Postby Compassionist » July 27th, 2019, 10:03 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:That is quite the wish list. Good luck with it.

You seem to blame the rich for much of our ecological woes, and while they own their share, it is the vast majority and our eating habits that are killing the environment tihat sustains us and all other life.

If you can, watch the documentary made for the U.N. called Cowspiracy. It is an eye opener when you look at the stats on cows and the fact that even environmentalists fear to talk of that in vase they offend their donors.

If our best people against climate change will not tell us the truth, ------

Regards
DL

Everyone has an ecological footprint but the rich have huge ecological footprints. Also, you need to add the environmental impact of oil rigs, fracking stations, coal mines, etc. I am a pacifist vegan. I already watched Cowspiracy. Thank you. Are you a vegan?


Yes, I and half my family are Vegan.

As to the ecological damage from industry, we the consumers keep those rigs pumping as we are mostly addicted to our life styles and can only reduce our footprints up to a certain point. There are only a few rich with large footprints as compared to the billons of rank and file and to blame the rich when they are such a minimum of the population is unjust.

My morals will not allow me to be a pacifist as one or the tenets I live by is, --- for evil to grow, all good people/pacifists need do is nothing.

Jesus lived by his, turn the other cheek, which is a Jewish way to insult the hitter, and I follow that reasoning otherwise I would be rewarding evil.

Regards
DL

I am so glad that you and half your family are vegan. I am the only vegan in my family which makes me sad. There are peaceful means of opposing evil e.g. what Mohondas Karamchand Gandhi did, what Martin Luther King Jr. did. Of course, both of them were killed by violence evil people. We live in a reality where might is right and one must adapt or die. History shows again and again, if one has enough power, one gets away with anything. All the people who harmed me or my relatives and friends (the kidnapper, the rapist, the murderers, the robbers, the thieves, the bullies, the liars, the reckless drivers) got away with their wrongdoings.

Some countries (and some people within some countries) have much larger ecological footprint than other countries and other people within the countries. Typically, the rich have many thousands of times the footprints of the poor. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _footprint and http://data.footprintnetwork.org

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
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Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#9 Postby Gnostic Bishop » July 27th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

Compassionist
Posts: 3427
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

#10 Postby Compassionist » July 27th, 2019, 3:47 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

You are most welcome.


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