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 split: Nirvanam's contribution to homeopathy discussion 
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How many doctors/pharmacologists are involved in this discussion?


December 16th, 2009, 6:04 pm
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How many doctors/pharmacologists are involved in this discussion?
Well Nancy aint either of those :D

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December 16th, 2009, 6:13 pm
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Alan C. wrote:
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How many doctors/pharmacologists are involved in this discussion?
Well Nancy aint either of those :D
Are you either a doctor or a pharmacologist? Do you know Nancy Malik is not a doctor? Or are you saying that because she is a "Homeopathic" Doctor?


December 16th, 2009, 6:59 pm
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Maria wrote:
Stop posting those useless links, Nancy. I'm removing them because I only accept advertising for ethical products on this site, which I pay for.
Lol! How exactly do you define "ethical", Maria?

Just as a matter of procedure wanted to know if I were to advertise some product, is there any reference material here on the site which defines an 'ethical product'?

From the posts, I didn't think Nancy was advertising. But maybe she did because I haven't really followed this thread till today, after months.


December 16th, 2009, 7:05 pm
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Nirvanam wrote:
Alan C. wrote:
Quote:
How many doctors/pharmacologists are involved in this discussion?
Well Nancy aint either of those :D
Are you either a doctor or a pharmacologist? Do you know Nancy Malik is not a doctor? Or are you saying that because she is a "Homeopathic" Doctor?


Regular full time medical degree for a minimum period of 5 1/2 years (BHMS) that includes one year compulsory internship, is absolutely necessary for becoming qualified to practice homeopathy in India as it gives a complete understanding not only about the structure and functioning of the human body but also a thorough understanding of the homeopathic philosophy and its practical utilization while treating diseased persons. And to do M.D. in homeopathy further, admission is through an entrance examination, and you have to spend three more years after BHMS.

The syllabus of BHMS includes courses but not limited to Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Pathology, Parasitology, Forensic Medicine, Gynecology, Obstetrics, Ophthalmology, ENT, Surgery, Community Medicine, Homeopathic Pharmacy, Repertory, Materia Medica and Homeopathic Methodology & Philosophy.

(Appoligies if posted before)

The legal status of homoeopathy in India is on an equal footing with both conventional and Ayurvedic medicine.

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December 16th, 2009, 7:16 pm
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Dr. Nancy Malik wrote:
Regular full time medical degree for a minimum period of 5 1/2 years (BHMS) that includes one year compulsory internship, is absolutely necessary for becoming qualified to practice homeopathy in India as it gives a complete understanding not only about the structure and functioning of the human body but also a thorough understanding of the homeopathic philosophy and its practical utilization while treating diseased persons. And to do M.D. in homeopathy further, admission is through an entrance examination, and you have to spend three more years after BHMS.

The syllabus of BHMS includes courses but not limited to Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Pathology, Parasitology, Forensic Medicine, Gynecology, Obstetrics, Ophthalmology, ENT, Surgery, Community Medicine, Homeopathic Pharmacy, Repertory, Materia Medica and Homeopathic Methodology & Philosophy.

(Appoligies if posted before)

The legal status of homoeopathy in India is on an equal footing with both conventional and Ayurvedic medicine.
Thanks for clarifying, Nancy.

Alan C, any expertise on any of these subjects Nancy mentioned?


December 16th, 2009, 7:26 pm
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Quote:
Are you either a doctor or a pharmacologist?
Did I ever say I was?
Quote:
Do you know Nancy Malik is not a doctor? Or are you saying that because she is a "Homeopathic" Doctor?
I know she's not a Dr of medicine, "Homeopathic" Doctor is an oxymoron.

How predictable that you try to defend her, I expect soon you'll try to turn it into a racial issue. :D

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December 16th, 2009, 7:34 pm
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Alan C, any expertise on any of these subjects Nancy mentioned?
Nope.

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December 16th, 2009, 7:35 pm
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Alan C. wrote:
I know she's not a Dr of medicine, "Homeopathic" Doctor is an oxymoron.
woo hoo...some idiotic rant that is.

A no-clue-er as far as being a doctor or pharmacologist is concerned, is basically arguing that a particular subject does not have anything to treat medical problems.

Alan C, what is your expertise...let me know what you are good at, first. You clearly have no background on what it means to be a doctor or pharmacologist yet think you are right in ridiculing someone or something that you don't understand or know of. Let's see what exactly are your recognized abilities.


December 16th, 2009, 7:47 pm
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Alan C. wrote:
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Alan C, any expertise on any of these subjects Nancy mentioned?
Nope.
What is your expertise in?

If you do not have expertise in something, how exactly are you arguing that homeopathy does not work? Because you "believe" someone who has expertise in the area and told you that he or she doesn't think homeopathy works? What is the term you use for it again? ah right "Faith".

Or do you have the ability to interpret the results of tests shared by some researchers and figure out how exactly the tests were done? If yes, have you seen any material of tests that were done which showed homeopathy works for a particular ailment?

Come out with it, Alan C.


December 16th, 2009, 7:52 pm
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Alan C. wrote:
Quote:
Are you either a doctor or a pharmacologist?
Did I ever say I was?
Quote:
Do you know Nancy Malik is not a doctor? Or are you saying that because she is a "Homeopathic" Doctor?
I know she's not a Dr of medicine, "Homeopathic" Doctor is an oxymoron.

How predictable that you try to defend her, I expect soon you'll try to turn it into a racial issue. :D


Alan, I don't need any certification from you. I had a license to practice Homeopathy from govt. of India, however hell you cry.

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December 16th, 2009, 7:52 pm
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Nirvanam wrote:
Alan C. wrote:
I know she's not a Dr of medicine, "Homeopathic" Doctor is an oxymoron.
woo hoo...some idiotic rant that is.

A no-clue-er as far as being a doctor or pharmacologist is concerned, is basically arguing that a particular subject does not have anything to treat medical problems.

Alan C, what is your expertise...let me know what you are good at, first. You clearly have no background on what it means to be a doctor or pharmacologist yet think you are right in ridiculing someone or something that you don't understand or know of. Let's see what exactly are your recognized abilities.


Thanks nirvanam for asking alan such blunt questions. Very few people questions skeptics.

Alan, which books on homeopathy you have read. Skeptics like you should never comment on an expertise outside of their own profession unless they take the time to understand it and observe its workings

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December 16th, 2009, 7:56 pm
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Maria wrote:
Homeopathy is nonsense and the promotion of it is dangerous as a serious health discipline is dangerous and has had tragic consequences.
Maria, don't get me wrong but I am arguing on principle here. How are you able to say Homeopathy is nonsense? How exactly are you able to say that "as a serious health discipline is dangerous and has had tragic consequences."? Is it your opinion?

And with the same reasoning, if I brought you cases of:
a. al-pthy medicine leading to tragic consequences
b. h-pthy medicine improving patients' conditions and curing illnesses

how would you look at the evidence?

Hey, and I didn't know that this site was a private one owned by you... I'll be careful not to argue with you too much :wink:


December 16th, 2009, 8:03 pm
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Nirvanam

Please read through all that's been said in this thread and the other one about Nancy's homeopathy test and you might understand why we are all pissed off by Nancy's antics.

Nancy is asserting homeopathy works. It's up to her to provide that evidence. Up till now, she has provided not one jot of evidence that we find in the slightest bit convincing.

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December 16th, 2009, 8:08 pm
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Alan H wrote:
Nancy

Can you tell me why, as joint owner and admin, either Maria or I should allow you to continue to post without properly engaging in any discussion whatsoever. You started doing this when you first joined us over a year ago. You were warned then. You're warned again. This is a discussion board. The key word there is pretty obvious. Take heed.
Alan, on principle and the urge I have to defend people (rather irrational but yep I do it), I'd like to ask you what you mean by discussion, here?

I notice there are around 22 pages of posts on this thread which is close to 440 individual posts. How many of these posts are 'non-discussion' posts? How many of those non-discussion posts are by each individual...a list should help.

How many of the posts were ridicule-inducing (categorized by person)? How many of those posts were adding no value to the discussion (again categorized by person)?

Fair to expect those stats? It'll give enough objective evidence for you to take appropriate action.


December 16th, 2009, 8:11 pm
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Nancy Malik is the equivalent of somebody who is selling a carpet cleaner made from solid balsa wood, who comes in to your house uninvited, shits on your carpet and uses the balsa wood cleaner to smear it around while humming carpet cleaner noises, and gets all indignant with you when you expose them as a cheap fraudster.

I don't think the onus to provide evidence lies with Maria and Alan here N.

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December 16th, 2009, 8:21 pm
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Nirvanam wrote:
...I'd like to ask you what you mean by discussion, here?

I notice there are around 22 pages of posts on this thread which is close to 440 individual posts. How many of these posts are 'non-discussion' posts? How many of those non-discussion posts are by each individual...a list should help.

How many of the posts were ridicule-inducing (categorized by person)? How many of those posts were adding no value to the discussion (again categorized by person)?

Fair to expect those stats? It'll give enough objective evidence for you to take appropriate action.
No. I do not have the time to do that just to save you the time of reading through what's been said previously. Even a cursory glance through them will find several instances where Nancy has been warned about just posting links to other websites and trying to evade answering legitimate questions put to her.

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December 16th, 2009, 8:24 pm
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Alan H wrote:
Nirvanam

Please read through all that's been said in this thread and the other one about Nancy's homeopathy test and you might understand why we are all pissed off by Nancy's antics.

Nancy is asserting homeopathy works. It's up to her to provide that evidence. Up till now, she has provided not one jot of evidence that we find in the slightest bit convincing.
Alan, I don't need to read the whole thread to know whether Homeopathy works or not. I have experienced it working and not working myself. It obviously does not work for a fracture or tear...someone has to stitch the skin back! But it does work for fevers, bronchitis, migraines, and many other such ailments.

Now, asking evidence from someone...are you willing to actually see the evidence? Alan, there is a big huge world outside of the UK and in many countries people use different kinds of medicines: homeopathy, unani (greek), ayurveda, persian (derivative of unani), accupuncture, a-pthy, etc. Not all work for all ailments...some work for some, some don't work for some. These medicinal approaches have been existing for centuries. So if they did not work, then they would've naturally become extinct? Or are you going to argue that for centuries people had "faith" it works? Ridiculous, no, that argument would be?

Now, it doesn't mean you have to take homeopathic medicine yourself. It just means that it has worked for some people in the world. Why is it so difficult to accept that? Aren't we being a little too narrow-minded on what works and what doesn't?

Consider this: you are arguing with a homeopathic doctor, mate (one of my best friends' wife is also one). A person who has undergone 5+ yrs of education in such medicine...a recognized degree by the Indian government (by rejecting homeopathy as a medicinal approach you are basically saying the Indian government got it wrong...do you realize that?). People don't "waste" 5+ yrs of their prime educational life to learn some useless thing that too for a career not a hobby. As a matter of systemic evolution, something that does not have value will automatically become extinct.

Is Nancy holding a knife to anybody's neck here and asking them to take homeopathic medicine or else...? If she is being asked to provide evidence of whether h-pathy works or not, it would be fair for her to know whether the people asking for evidence are capable of understanding the evidence or subject, no?


December 16th, 2009, 8:27 pm
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Nirvanam

Nancy has not provided any convincing evidence that it does work other than ad populum fallacy arguments. I will consider any evidence she cares to bring to the discussion — something from a Cochrane (as jdc has cited) would be a good place to start.

Now, what was it you said to me recently about causation and correlation?

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December 16th, 2009, 8:35 pm
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I'm not absolutely sure whether Nancy's qualification would allow her to call herself Dr in the UK. One thing is clear: she would not be allowed to advertise herself as a doctor here because it would be in breach of the Advertising Standards Authority rules and almost certainly the rules of the General Medical Council (who regulate medical doctors) rule and possibly the law. I am grateful that we do have such laws here (which are there to protect the public), even though they are frequently broken by people who think they are qualified to give medical advice.

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December 16th, 2009, 8:41 pm
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