The Nightingale Collaboration

[Alan H]

The countdown begins...

[jaywhat]

Got the email - all the best

[Nick]

One day, one hour, one minute, one second until lift off!

Looking forward to it!

[Alan H]

The rules have just changed… Help make a difference: www.nightingale-collaboration.org

[Vicky]

Good Luck, Alan and Maria!

[Dave B]

Yup, another missile in the battle ready for launch! Bon voyage!

[Alan H]

We're getting told about loads of ASA complaints about homeopathy websites.

Has anyone here done one? If not, why not? It's easy with our step-by-step guide.

[getreal]

Good luck Alan! I've just noticed this thread and I am away to see what I can dig up locally!

Edit: I have just come accross an outfit in Edinburgh offering "friendly colonic irrigation"!!

[Dave B]

Took a look around some of the sites for homeopaths in this area but none of them make any claims at all! Very low key non-specific phraeology.

One had a link to a support site:

Has Homeopathy been succesful for you? Do you want to keep it as an alternative? please support homeopathy, by CLICKING HERE You can read about the campaign to help Homeopathy, you can also sign the declaration.

that leads to a "Server not found" message.

Keep up the good work, I am still looking around this neck of the woods.

[Alan H]

It doesn't have to be a local homeopathy website - I suggested that so we'd get a good spread of websites, rather than multiple complaints about the top hits in Google! So, if you can't find anything close at hand, try another town.

[Dave B]

Alan, there is still a danger there that several might find the most obvious offending sites. Looking in ones local area, and we have lots of local areas, automatically spreads the search geographically.

OK, so nowt in Gloucester, will look at Cheltenham, then Cirencester, Bristol, Bath, Birmingham etc. - get wider each time. I will eventually overlap with Alan in Shetland, having passed a few others on the way I suppose but . . .

Edit: just thought, it matters not that several complain about the same site, but would I be right in saying that it is also good to show the "breadth" of the problem as well?

[Alan C.]

I just had another look at Nancy' website but had to leave before my brain dissolved.

I can't find any here in Shetland (unless you count Boots) but there are one or two in Aberdeen that I'll check out tomorrow.

Cross posting with Dave,
I have found them in both Bristol and Birmingham Dave.

Edit.
Why is it that most "practitioners" and users; are of the female persuasion? Don't crucify me girls, I'm just stating a fact.

[Dave B]

Oi, that's trespassing!

Were there any complainable claims in those, Alan? As I said most of those I find make no claims about nuthin - playing cagey in the public arena after the negative publicity it seems.

Goody, the less they feel safe boating about the less effective their adverts are!

[Alan C.]

Dave
Were there any complainable claims in those, Alan?

I didn't go to the websites (don't want to step on anyone's toes) I was just flicking through a hundred or more looking for ones in Shetland, which I didn't find.

On a related note, there is a Chiropractor here who calls herself "Dr" I've made quite a few enemies for challenging her on her use of a protected title when she is not in fact an MD, it's a small community and she has a lot of relatives here.

Now I think about it; it's odd, whenever I complain on shetlink about any kind of woo (including religion) I usually get around 75% support but whenever I mention Dianne Middleton (the chiropractor) I get no support.

I have complained to the ASA three times about her and all I get is an acknowledgement of my complaint, they take no action and it puts me off submitting further complaints (of any kind)

If you look on the GMC website there is a Dianne Middleton registered but it's not our one, I've looked into it.

End rant

[Alan H]

Edit: just thought, it matters not that several complain about the same site, but would I be right in saying that it is also good to show the "breadth" of the problem as well?

I suspect the ASA are well aware of the problem - they've been dealing with newspaper ads for homeopathy for long enough! However, it is good to let them see just how bad the situation is everywhere.

[Alan H]

As I said most of those I find make no claims about nuthin - playing cagey in the public arena after the negative publicity it seems.

Goody, the less they feel safe boating about the less effective their adverts are!

Yes. We don't want to stop them advertising at all - they should be free to, but it's what the adverts say that matters. making misleading claims (direct or indirect) is what cons the public. A homeopath making no claims about what their magic sugar pills can actually do is a win!

[Alan H]

On a related note, there is a Chiropractor here who calls herself "Dr" I've made quite a few enemies for challenging her on her use of a protected title when she is not in fact an MD, it's a small community and she has a lot of relatives here.

Now I think about it; it's odd, whenever I complain on shetlink about any kind of woo (including religion) I usually get around 75% support but whenever I mention Dianne Middleton (the chiropractor) I get no support.

I have complained to the ASA three times about her and all I get is an acknowledgement of my complaint, they take no action and it puts me off submitting further complaints (of any kind)

If you look on the GMC website there is a Dianne Middleton registered but it's not our one, I've looked into it.

End rant

Unfortunately, Dr is not a protected title - but chiropractor is. Bizarre, I know. Surely the ASA have done more than just acknowledge your complaint?

[Alan C.]

Dave
Were there any complainable claims in those, Alan?

I didn't go to the websites (don't want to step on anyone's toes) I was just flicking through a hundred or more looking for ones in Shetland, which I didn't find.

On a related note, there is a Chiropractor here who calls herself "Dr" I've made quite a few enemies for challenging her on her use of a protected title when she is not in fact an MD, it's a small community and she has a lot of relatives here.

Now I think about it; it's odd, whenever I complain on shetlink about any kind of woo (including religion) I usually get around 75% support but whenever I mentionDianne Joanne Middleton (the chiropractor) I get no support.

I have complained to the ASA three times about her and all I get is an acknowledgement of my complaint, they take no action and it puts me off submitting further complaints (of any kind)

If you look on the GMC website there is a Dianne Joanne Middleton registered but it's not our one, I've looked into it.

End rant

I've got out of bed to edit this And I hope you googlers appreciate it.
Cross posting again, with Alan H.

Surely the ASA have done more than just acknowledge your complaint?

Er....No.
Or if they have they haven't told me about it.
She still advertises as "Dr Joanne Middleton" Chiropractor, and there seems to be nothing I can do about it, and it irks me.

I'm off back to bed, goodnight all.

[Vicky]

This is the only website I can find over here:-

http://www.homeopathy.iofm.net/

And I don't think it makes any claims which I can complain about, does it, Athena or Alan H?

[Alan H]

Loads there to complain about! Not direct claims, but still things that mislead the visitor:

Healing illness has never been simple but homeopathy offers by far the most thorough and comprehensive approach to date.

Homeopathy is a natural and safe system of medicine, that works with your body's own healing processes. It recognises that disease is simply the body's way of showing that it is out of balance and that it is therefore the patient who needs treatment not the disease.

It's none of these things - it is not a 'system of medicine' - it's not medicine and the advertisers should be challenged on that. That's a claim that will mislead people into thinking it's just a system of medicine that's simply an alternative to proper medicine and they need to provide evidence to substantiate that claim.

Ditto with this nonsense:

Working with nature
All symptoms of illness are the body's first attempt to heal itself. A homeopath respects this natural tendency, and attempts to work with it rather than against it. He seeks therefore to understand the whole patient and not just isolated illness.
This is quite different from the orthodox approach, which tries to suppress individual symptoms whenever they arise, with little understanding of their wider context and of the disruption and suffering this will inevitably cause.

This denigrates proper medicine by giving utterly false and misleading information about it. The irony of the claim that the 'orthodox approach' has little understanding of the wider context of the symptoms!

Based on treatment of the patient as an individual.
Scientists study disease as if the people that have them do not exist. A homeopath on the other hand, looks for the complete collection of symptoms the individual displays.
These symptoms will be mental, emotional and physical regardless of where the complaint is centred, for it is only by treating the complete collection of symptoms that a real and lasting cure can ever be accomplished.

This is the usual canard: conventional medicine bases treatment on individuals; homeopaths bases treatment on imaginary pre-scientific ideas about how the world works. This is misleading.

Safe and gentle
Homeopathic medicines have all been tested thoroughly on human volunteers (not on animals). They are non-toxic, have no side effects and are not addictive.

This could mislead the public into thinking they have been tested for efficacy: they haven't. The 'testing' they are talking about is their mis-named 'provings' which are utter nonsense and in no way give any indication of efficacy. Are they safe? Directly, possibly (but not categorically). Indirectly? No.

http://www.homeopathy.iofm.net/page2.html

Up to date
Unfortunately little has changed to date, and in spite of numerous clinical audits which demonstrate how well homeopathic treatment works in practice, the establishment will not forsake its dogma.
Like religion, it seems the scientific community has its fixed beliefs, and will not change in the face of contra-evidence, even when this attitude deprives the sick of the best treatment available.
Yet homeopathy has continued to flourish despite this bigotry, and according to the World Health Organisation, is now the second most popular health-care system globally and the fastest growing.

'how well homeopathic treatments work'? You've got to be kidding - there are no robust scientific trails that show homeopathy more effective than placebo - and that's what the ASA are interested in, not some airy-fairy proving!

Other stuff on that page is also misleading.

http://www.homeopathy.iofm.net/page3.html

Wisdom of the body
This principle is practically illustrated in the relationship between childhood eczema and asthma. Eczema is often treated conventionally with powerful steroid creams, but these have the effect, not of curing, but of "burying" the problem more deeply. After treatment the patient's skin symptoms have been removed, but all too often, asthma symptoms develop in their place.
The problem has just been moved to a deeper and more serious level.
A homeopath would expect to see a reverse of this process, so that successful treatment would usually involve the eczema reappearing briefly at some point, as the vital force retraces its steps towards health.

I doubt the advertiser could substantiate what he says about conventional treatment - it sets up a straw man just to mislead the visitor.

http://www.homeopathy.iofm.net/page4.html

He will then try to match this "picture" with thousands of other cured cases recorded in the homeopathic materia medicas.

This gives the misleading impression that people have been cured by homeopathy.

I hope this gives you some food for thought! If you want any help drafting anything, just let me know!

Remember to include some of the stock phrases: http://www.nightingale-collaboration.or ... month.html